Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

electricgeisha · Post by **electricgeisha** » 26 Jul 2010, 22:37

So just checked out my twitter... it seems Softimage is now been added to the Maya,Max premium entertainment suites. Rather than getting its own package.

They are really pushing this companion software angle aren't they. I know we had some reassurance last week from Bellsey but again moves like this make the SI community wonder how dev is going into this product when it is being thrown in with Max and Maya.

It may be the deal breaker for me, I may have to just give into focusing my efforts in Maya. AD you know what Turtle is right? it isn't a companion to axolotl.

Cheers

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » 27 Jul 2010, 00:10

I dunno how bad this is, or if its even bad, yeah of course we all would like Soft to shine and fly above every other 3d package but, i think AD knows market a bit more than me and us, so well..i dont think they are planning to destroy or kill a product they bought.
Of course i would be more happy if it had its own Suite, instead of bein bundled with max and maya, what counts to me is that Softimage doesnt get discontinued like Combustion, or integrated in some application tearing off ICE and slapping into Maya, or stop developing stuff for Softimage.

If those thing wont happen, i'm fine with whatever way they find to sell it, i dont care, but if they start to sink it down then well..thats gonna be really bad.
I also read about integration of Lagoa and Turtle wich is win, if true...of course.
I hope someone from AD confirm those voices and hopefully we'll understand more their intention on Softimage, Luceric was enough clear last he wrote anyway.

I dont know but i dont feel this is bad, we'll see with more info coming up, lets hope the price of that premium suite isnt overkill.

electricgeisha · Post by **electricgeisha** » 27 Jul 2010, 00:21

Yeah I some what agree. I just feel after last week with the reassurance that SI was being pushed along and everything was roses... now this week it is bundled under Maya and Max in the suites. Turtle is great news.

I just really feel they are marketing SI in a very strange way... which does make me wonder their intentions. I just can't see like many other uses how it gets this "companion" status. Last I checked it does everything both Max and Maya does... dare I say in some areas better... this marketing certainly does not sell the product to new users as a standalone.

Anyway like I said in the other thread.. we will wait and see.

Cheers

Hirazi Blue · Post by **Hirazi Blue** » 27 Jul 2010, 08:22

Although I am tempted to rant about the obvious lack of a future for Softimage and to announce that even I - a very unimportant hobbyist - now am seriously considering other options as my next 3D software of choice, we probably have to wait what kind of announcements the next few days will bring.
I for one find it very strange, they bundled Lagoa with this bundle, as it hasn't even been officially released as far as I know. Although Lagoa's quality seems undisputable, we know nothing of it's ease of use, workflow etc. People not buying this bundle should have some means to purchase it also, one would think, and all we have seen was a teaser video.. Strange marketing by mr. Costa...

This could however mean that the only thing actually included in aforementioned bundle is the teaser video itself...

Bellsey · Post by **Bellsey** » 27 Jul 2010, 10:09

Ok, I saw the news of the Suites had gone out and I knew it would stir up a frenzy. lol

Regarding my recent comments, nothing has changed from what I previously said.
Softimage has not just been added to the exisiting Suites, nor has it just become a bundle like Matchmover or Composite, or a 'plugin' for Maya/Max, as I've seen some people write, this is a silly statement.
You can also still buy Softimage as a standalone product, so again, nothing has changed there either.

Softimage has been added to create a new Maya and Max Premium Suites which are in addition to the current Max and Maya Entertainment Suites. You can choose the products to install, much like the Adobe Suites.

If you're a user who uses the other packages like Motionbuiler and Mudbox, and/or have a Suite, then if you are looking at using and adding Softimage to your pipeline, then the Premium Suite looks like its worth considering.

Also as far as I know, this hasn't really effected the Siggraph booth and demos. This year, we seem to have focused more on getting some customers to present their work and details about what their workflow is, which personally I think is great.

Hirazi Blue · Post by **Hirazi Blue** » 27 Jul 2010, 10:28

Sorry, but many of the "silly" fears users have do seem to stem from bad PR. It's very nice to hear repeated reassurances AFTER the fact, but they tend to get "lost in translation" if every single new step our beloved company takes with our beloved software only SEEMS to merely confirm earlier fears.

While better advertising seems to be out of the question,
better PR would be most welcome...
;)

electricgeisha · Post by **electricgeisha** » 27 Jul 2010, 10:28

Bellsey you have to be honest... SI is not getting prime time coverage in terms of AD exposure, what I mean by this it is now bundled in with Maya/Max premium suite... which is great! as you basically get a whole application thrown into the deal (if the price is right of course.) Which I contacted my reseller today to see if it smarter to have the premium suite compared to having Mud/Soft/Maya all separated on my subscriptions. They are getting back to me when they get the figures.

But peoples assumptions (and I know that assumptions are the mother of all f%$k ups

) that is now being thrown into the mix as a companion to the big brother apps at AD is not really that far off... well from what we have seen so far of course.

We here love the app, our concern is it really going to be the staple around our pipeline or should we just bite the bullet and focus our efforts on Maya/Max as we are small team and don't want to be rowing up SI creek without a paddle.

Just my thoughts

Bellsey · Post by **Bellsey** » 27 Jul 2010, 10:46

I'm not saying it does get prime time coverage, but alot does differ from country to country. One doesn't always fit all.

A similar thread that has appeared in CGsociety has this text from a post by Raffaele Fragapane, whose comments imo, sum things up for me.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread. ... 9&t=905101

........Soft is still sold as stand-alone and has seen none of its areas of interest crippled, is still commercially viable on its own, and it exceeded sales expectations a couple times instead of bombing year after year and failing to strip market off its competitors.
It simply doesn't have the same market penetration as Maya does, and saying otherwise would be delusional on Soft or Soft users side, so this is a way for AD to squeeze more money out of their biggest userbases (making a large and expensive bundle attractive) that they wouldn't otherwise milk. This much is pretty obvious, other speculations, until further announcements, are rather far fetched.

As long as it keeps feeding money into the ICE architecture and Soft features, and makes Soft seats available in studios that wouldn't have had one there before to begin with, Soft users don't have much to complain about. And I'm one of them.

electricgeisha · Post by **electricgeisha** » 27 Jul 2010, 11:24

But again... it is all speculation as no one at AD is allowed to say anything. Hence people saying it is great or bad is all BS at the end of the day isn't it?

We can only see what actions Autodesk takes on face value, what you present to us. You have "companion" brushed it, yes, yes we get the whole direction of that but it still does not explain the lack of push on this product. Mudbox is a companion to the apps, Turtle is a companion to Maya.... Softimage is a stand alone product and as I mentioned earlier that it does the job just fine.

I agree it is great news, great bundle, great way to move some more seats of SI good good but what worth does SI have if it is basically sitting behind Max/Maya... you can see that, we can see that, hell many people see that.

Here is a really bad example.... Nike buys Reebok... Nike presents their new product line NIKE AIR ELITE you get NIKE AIRS/NIKE PHYSICS/NIKE RUNNING LIGHT and a pair of Reeboks. It does sort of come across as the free hat with the set of new golf sticks doesn't it.

I refer to your link, yes very valid points in favor, I agree I really do. But sometimes restricted,vague company policies really give your customers the shirts.

Hirazi Blue · Post by **Hirazi Blue** » 27 Jul 2010, 11:38

Some admittedly vague, but maybe comforting words from Stephen Blair at the SPH-forum

Don't base everything on a single PR announcement. Yes, the premium suites
for Max and Maya have been announced. Those suites are marketed to Max and
Maya users, and will allow us to penetrate that user base.
Softimage will still be sold separately, so I would stand by for more news.

(my highlight)

redmotion · Post by **redmotion** » 27 Jul 2010, 13:31

Graham, thanks for quoting Raffaele's post, its good to hear different perspectives about this but it's impossible not to feel a little apprehensive in regards to this development.

I'm going to wait and see. I'm quite sure AD are not doing this to be negative about Softimage, rather to get it into places it might not normally go and make it stick, make it vital and lock people into the "suite" product. Money is still going from these suites to Softimage devs afterall.

xsisupport · Post by **xsisupport** » 27 Jul 2010, 15:39

Please see this post from Chinny, the Softimage Product Manager:
A Softimage message

Rez007 · Post by **Rez007** » 27 Jul 2010, 16:46

After reading all of the posts and checking Chinny's message, to me it seems like a variety of assumptions can be made. Personally, I think electricgeisha has some good points, and I would just like to interject a little myself.

It seems like there are pros and cons to this situation. To me, in the long run it will have an overall negative effect for a Softimage user. Sure, this will be a way to embed more seats of Softimage into a company's pipeline, but do you think that will sway them over to Softimage...No. It will be an added benefit to that company, therefore the ever-mentioned "companion to..." holds strong, regardless if people say not to listen to that or not, the actions prove it to be true. If Autodesk truly wanted to keep Softimage from being companion software, like individuals have said, then why don’t they release a Suite for Softimage in addition to the Premium Collections that were just announced? To me the logical way would be to do it "all or nothing." To just have it as "added or companion" to Max or Maya speaks volumes in the outlook down the road.

Check this link out: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=15368320

Here is the advertised Autodesk description of the Premium Suites on their own page. The only mention I see what-so-ever on that page about Softimage is this...

"Just add ICE—Now part of the Autodesk® Entertainment Creation Suite Premium, Softimage® ICE enables you to create amazing effects from fluids to crowds faster."

Okay...why is it not even mentioned as a full product in the focused toolset area? I only see ICE being mentioned.

To me it seems like Autodesk is just pushing ICE and not the "whole" of Softimage. I think what is going to happen is that larger studios are going to "cherry-pick" the features they like out of Softimage, tell Autodesk what improvements they want on those certain features, and that will be the roadmap of development for the software. I only use Softimage for my work, which leads me to believe the features I would like to see are never going to happen. So, I either upgrade to the Suite and go back to either Max or learn Maya, or I will be sunk staying with the Standalone version of Softimage.

Like others have said before...the actions speak louder than words. Every time I here updates in regards to Softimage, a main focus is always on interoperability with Max and Maya."...get ICE into Maya...", "...use FaceRobot for your Max or Maya's characters and send it back again..." All of this, with the newly released Suites screams "companion."

How do I know that my Subscription fees aren't going to just make Softimage more user friendly with Max and Maya? I could care-less about Max and Maya. I want my money to go to Softimage as a whole and not what it can do for a Max or Maya user, which is what is going to happen in the future.

Speaking of which, judging by the price difference posted on Autodesk's site of the Creation Suite with and with out Subscription, there seems to be an $845.00 difference. Currently I pay $800.00 a year for Softimage alone, so for an extra $45.00 I can have a Subscription for all of the software contained in the Suite? It would be nice to see that if I stay with the Standalone version that the Subscription for that would at least drop to the levels of Max and Maya.

http://store.autodesk.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?SiteID=adsk&Locale=en_US&Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&productID=187021300&pgm=12938000&ThemeID=1293100&Currency=USD

At first, when I saw the news I was happy to see what was being offered, but the more I have time to think about it, I think Autodesk's vision of Softimage is being made more and more clear by its actions. I would be happy to sign an NDA just to see where the roadmap may be going and where I should focus my money and efforts.

Bellsey · Post by **Bellsey** » 27 Jul 2010, 17:04

I think the only thing is clear to me is that peoples assumptions are still way off target. I don't think Chinny could of been more clearer really.

Rez007 · Post by **Rez007** » 27 Jul 2010, 17:27

The reason I am skeptical is that when Avid owned Softimage, I got mailings from them saying how they are listening to their customers and they are realigning their efforts on their products to be more focused on their user base and those peoples' needs...then they sold Softimage to Autodesk roughly 3 weeks later...

Bellsey · Post by **Bellsey** » 27 Jul 2010, 17:55

well if you take that situation, the majority of people at Softimage (including myself), didn't know that Autodesk were about to buy the company. It came out of the blue and was a complete shock to many. But it was business as usual.

Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

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