Softimage, I like it but...

[Nizar]

Hi,
this is my first post, I don't find the welcome board (but it is night here and I must sleep... if there is a welcome board for first post, sorry I will use tomorrow). I start telling you I writing from Italy, so, if I doing big error, please, forgive me for my poor english ...
Ok, I come from Silo for modelling, and some little rendering in Blender and, my loving app: Zbrush.
I take a look to softimage, and I like it, but I fear this situation: it look a nice software but in the shadow of maya and 3dsm, if tomorrow autodesk decide to not support more softimage, or give less resource? No official course for softimage in my country (too many for 3dsm, I hate 3dsm...), no books or other professional updated learning things (DVD). It look a bit dark situation for me.
It is frustrating when software you study with so mush effort become a death in the water... My experience with silo talk so (silo 2 is a really fast robust modelling software, and the lack of support from nevecenter is a really bad thigh).
So, please, convince me SI is a good choice and I don't waste my time studying and learning it
(hope you understood the sense of my words)

[Hirazi Blue]

Welcome to our little community!!! ;)

Studying Softimage will certainly not be a waste of time. The future of the software might not look so bright and shiny as that of some of its "competitors"/"Autodesk siblings" like Max & Maya and the way Autodesk markets the product to some seems downright insulting ("a powerful companion to Maya"), but there definitively seems to be some future for the product. I wouldn't worry about that too much. If you like the software, you've got a better chance at getting any good at it & in the end you get noticed for the quality of your work, not for the software you used to create it...

As for tutorials:
you might want to look at the "Softimage 7.x Certified Training" available for free downloading at redi-vivus
This is "older" material, but most of it still applies, so it's definitively worth looking into... From them you could also download the ICE Training Sessions, but you can also watch them online @ the Autodesk Area after logging in there: ICE Training Sessions

And you can always ask here!!!

[Diurno]

no books or other professional updated learning things (DVD).

http://www.digitaltutors.com/09/index.php

http://www.i3dtutorials.com/

http://www.3dquakers.com/

take a look at these

and welcome ^^

(Moderator edit - URL TAGS - URL TAGS - URL TAGS - HB)

[Nizar]

Hi,
thanks very much for your info.
About tutorials, yes I know some of this (Digital tutors and the Vitaly Bulgarov Gnomon DVD), but I refer at autodesk official release, like Mastering Maya. I like, and prefer, learn from book (in particular way when the book are structured in a series of exercise, thinking for introducing to any tool and for create a reasonable work) I don't need specifically the official AD books, but it is for me a index about AD intention on SI. I brought Become Animation Studio Boss, but it is a poor technical info and exercise

I use Silo for modelling, really fast and intuitive modelling tools, really like it (this work in progress was done in silo and imported in SI, I see, admire and study the Vitaly gnomon DVD for it:


But Silo is really unstable software, too many crash, I'm really sorry for silo, it is, for me, the best traditional modelling IMHO
Hope to find SI modelling tool so comfortable like is in silo (I hate import export to many software, prefer doing the major part of work in single application (zbrush excluded)

[tuna]

Once you get used to XSI shortcuts you will really like modeling in XSI. It's missing a good mirror feature, but otherwise for poly modeling I've found it awesome.

About training: Softimage has always had a massive lack of training. There's simply not much money in it, and few experienced Softimage users willing and/or able to spend the time creating training. I think it's important that Autodesk push for this as it is very important, but Autodesk aren't so perceptive to ideas and concepts like "TRAIN YOUR DAMN USERBASE".

However, Softimage is a wonderful piece of software and has good feedback from the developers on forums (even if forums are often sparse in new content).

Hope you get along with it well

[Nizar]

Silo is all shortcourts, in a well, smart disposition on your keyboard (give it a try, really fun modelling with it)
In SI turn me strange "s" key instead the usual alt key for pan rotate ecc. but I don't want use the maya key, I woul learn the SI way (but ALT is so big, nice key on my keybord, instead s is so little...

[Nizar]

I return back
In the main time I tried modo... cannot understand why people tell so much good thing about this software. Too many crash and a learning curve too difficult for me. I think the user come from LW can find it comfortable, but for a new user like me it is a nightmare... viewport 3d is not comparable with the speed of softimage viewport (Blender viewport is better then modo) too many mouse click for my taste, strange mouse keyborad combo, I admit can be fast when you learning all, but what is the software who don't become fast when you perfectly know it? . In any case I find fast preview in modo really useful and power.

Now, the only obstacle between me and SI is Autodesk... 2000 $ is reasonable, but software worth it. 2000 $ at years, plus support and subscription, become more heavy... 2000 $ + subscription every years is really too much...

[Hirazi Blue]

Yes, it's a steep price with subscription and all.
But I think you've miscalculated: 2000$ + $Subscription when you buy,
only $Subscription in the following years...
(where $Subscription obviously stands for the current price for a subscription contract)
;)

[Nizar]

My error
Any chance for a new fondation release?

[Jesse]

Doubtful we would see a new release of foundation. It's just not practical or perhaps even possible now to exclude ICE from a release. However to include ICE in a $400-$500 version of the software would basically leave very little reason to buy the higher end versions. Everything else, from, hair, simulation and syflex (things previously excluded from foundation) can potentially be rebuilt or built better inside of ICE.

[Hirazi Blue]

I fully agree, it will never happen.
They could follow Houdini's example and create a non-commercial
"starving artist's edition", which hobbyist could/would enjoy,
but I guess, by that time, hell will have frozen over also...

[wacom]

A lot of people would easily pay 500-800 for a stripped down, ICE-less and face robot-less version of SI that had the latest mr and was updated to be compatible with the latest OSes.

FND was an exceptional value WAY before anything "fancy" was included and easily worth 1k in my mind. I was able to do plenty of paid work with it (though it wasn't "MTV" FX level work).

There is the modtool...but has that even been updated?

Now the only thing that comes close for an animator, as a pay app, for under 1k, is probably Messiah (combined with your favorite modeling application). Anything under that and you might as well go blender (I really mean no offense by that either).

Houdini still is mind blowing...each time I try to open it my brain hemorrhages esp. when trying to model anything more than a coffee cup!

[Hirazi Blue]

Under $1000 (or just about): The Cinema 4D core package?

edit: But as "we" were talking about (character) animation,
you'd need the additional MOCCA module
for any "serious" character animation in Cinema 4D also...
(Pushing the price way over $1000 again... )

[Nizar]

Modo 501 will fill this gap IMO. Right now, IMO, is a better choice then Cinema. In any case Foundation at 600 $ was a great deal.

[wacom]

Modo 501 will fill this gap IMO. Right now, IMO, is a better choice then Cinema. In any case Foundation at 600 $ was a great deal.

I'm not trying to derail this subject into what is the best app under 1k, and I know it's a mater of personal needs and taste, but MODO is not a substitute for FND in terms of CA.

With C4D, BTW you could buy the base package, and then there are a number of VERY competitively priced third party CA "booster" packs available that get you closer for under 1k.

Messiah, is all about CA (it is very advanced on this feature), AND it has node based shading, which AFAIK, modo and C4D lack, and seem in no hurry to acquire. I simply refuse, or will only do so kicking and screaming, to use anything that lacks a node based shading system now.

If you mainly do modeling, light animation, and rendering esp of products, scenes, etc. then yes, Modo might be a good fit.

[Nizar]

No no No one want a stupid fanboy software war
I talk about next Modo release 501, and not 401. The next modo release will have full CA, don't know if will be good or not, but will has for sure.
About Node based vs shader tree, I don't know what is better. I can affirm in modo you can archive good result with minimum effort, much more simple and faster than mental ray or, as mentioned more fast, power and efficient then Cinema base render (don't know at all advanced render). Shader tree is not so complex, can be limited if compared with node freedom (I cannot say if yes or not for sure, don't have experience about, only my impression) but it is immediate like Layer in photoshop IMO.
So I don't like the Modo "Lightwave steroid" workflow but in his price market (under 1000 euro, 750 € if you don't want the boxed version) Modo has only, like competitor, Lightwave and Cinema. Lightwave look really old in his workflow and interface, but has CA animation and many (valid) plugin around. Cinema is too base for my taste and each module has an exaggerate cost for my taste (sketch and tool module for rendering cost about 500 €). So, for this price, IMHO, the war is only between modo and LW. Over these considerations, a new XSI foundation without ice will win hands down IMO