what other 3D sites do you use?

Shredder565 · Post by **Shredder565** » 08 Jun 2018, 22:55

with XSI base long gone, and who knows how long we'll have this site with xsi officially dead...

are there any other CG related sites you visit that get alot of activity and traffic, that have a healthy (hopefully friendly) community?

just curious what else is out there

. hopefully i don't wake up one day and find this place gone too!

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 09 Jun 2018, 13:21

I still frequent the United3Dartists forum community. It was built by ex trueSpace users. They still develop stuff for truespace, make patches, have fun in competitors and are pretty friendly. I've even worked with some of them and met them on Skype. I love the community that stuck together even after the demise of a software some good 9 years ago. Now it's more software agnostic.

I can see this place do the same with time.

I also frequent the Bforartist forums. Mainly because... it's quiet and about the software I like and have the freedom to make better for me and others without too many political roadblocks.

I have noticed I am more a small community type. Feels genuine.

Others I'm starting to frequent are discord groups for artists like the Sycra group.

Other communities I'm pushing into are the Cryptocurrency Blockchain social networks on Steem. Steepshot, Busy, Dlive. It's a nice feeling getting a couple of cents or dollars on the market for social interactions and likes to my posts. Less popular but more satisfying. Minds.com is also interesting. The art scene in both Steem and Minds is more ambiguous and small but they do have some 3d/2d artists there and competitions and a value to posts and interactions has created a more. .. supportive and friendly feel. About a million users are on Steem. And half of them from January. It's got a lot of bots though... so the backlog support on Discord is nice.

Twitter is full of artists and feel more comfortable than Facebook too BTW. ..

Bullit · Post by **Bullit** » 09 Jun 2018, 16:56

i still frequent cgsociety, but is now more Autodesk bent and of course like most 3d sites has seen a drastic reduction of activity. I go also to C4D cafe which i found much friendly.

Shredder565 · Post by **Shredder565** » 09 Jun 2018, 17:17

nice to know there are some alternatives out there, but seems not too many active ones :/.

is it because autodesk has basically cornered the market, or other reasons?

Bullit · Post by **Bullit** » 09 Jun 2018, 20:15

Everyone is after the cheapest artist, so many people got out of 3D. Doing long hours with software that seems to be designed in earlier XXI century -starting with Windows OS itself - with badly managed projects... that sometimes seems better to work in Mcdonalds.
This kind of work invites burn outs.

There are other stuff a person can do. Hopefully the prices will go up but i wouldn't bet on it.

Shredder565 · Post by **Shredder565** » 09 Jun 2018, 21:38

that's a shame. even more of a shame it seems like the work overload may have killed peoples joy of doing it just for fun.
so much for doing this for a career even if i was good at it

.

NNois · Post by **NNois** » 11 Jun 2018, 16:05

Bullit wrote: 09 Jun 2018, 20:15 Everyone is after the cheapest artist, so many people got out of 3D. Doing long hours with software that seems to be designed in earlier XXI century -starting with Windows OS itself - with badly managed projects... that sometimes seems better to work in Mcdonalds.
This kind of work invites burn outs.

There are other stuff a person can do. Hopefully the prices will go up but i wouldn't bet on it.

I'm just saying but... Hey ! Do not worry too much, my favorite readings this days goes to the discussion the more and more prominent of our destiny ( we humans ).
Facts are we are just near to a civilization collapse, and we, can't do something about it anymore, nor the technology, nor the money.

We just ignore it beautifully.

The only way to go further is to accept it and do something you care about your life ;-)

If anyone has any doubt's, well just look around, the economical crisis will be for this year or the next, we will face in the next years big energie and ressources troubles, there is no more biodiversity, there's left 10% of fish in the oceans, we consumed nearly all the sand of the planet, we passed the peak oil production (we are now searching oil in the mud in canada !) ...

In this case i'll not work at macdonald's ! And I don't have any solution because tehre is just, not.

Bullit · Post by **Bullit** » 12 Jun 2018, 03:17

If you can serve others, make something useful for others you have a job. I have no problem working at Mcdonalds if it is better(or less worse) than other alternatives. In a country of snobs who cleans bathrooms can be a millionaire.
I was in a project recently, the studio i worked with were subcontracted, the studio that had the client gave erroneous information because the head was not there but on a trip, this was Thursday, late Friday they gave us some information but they had not much, mid Monday they were calling us why there was so little done like if nothing happened and we weren't sent in completely different path less than a little more than half work day ago. Solution for all this crap was to send everyday little stuff for them next day to have an answer and never finish any part of the project except in last days. Instead of a project lasting 1 and 1/2 week it lasted 3 weeks. I was always jumping from camera to camera never finishing any.

So there is no more sand in the desert? so what is there now, an hole? :-D

No we are not near a civilization collapse and most gas price in Europe are taxes...we are nevertheless near stupidity and quality collapse . Things are badly done even from those that supposedly have primary interest on it.
Navigating websites for example is often worse then 10 years ago...

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 12 Jun 2018, 12:12

hahaha reading this.

I get the bad clients and hellish work - but really it all depends on the contract. Well defined checkpoints, client input definition/requirements, locked labour hours after checkpoints and good pre-production with client involvement all defined in a contract can and will avoid all these headaches. Clients are happy because they know when to "create/direct" and when they will get their final product - and also when they have to pay more if they ask for more (and how the deadlines will extend if said request happens after a checkpoint).

My worst clients are always the ones where I didin't sign and define the above terms before beginning. ALWAYS.

Also, when subcontracting... define set hours. Contracts and subcontracting, having set hours defined on tasks - with managing the improvisions in mind with extra hours - really calms the artists down. I think... in an industry that is "art" but built around "business"... contracts and the legalities just need to be more "art" to "client" communication friendly so everyone wins.

I see huge issues from documentaries and testimonies of studios in Europe, the States, everywhere. I also see it trend in Upwork/Fiverr and Freelancer. Artists and studios shoot themselves in the foot. Ridiculous fixed price no-milestone multi-revision preproduction-less contracts and bad verbal terms with clients is.. how you should not do it.

6-8 hours a day are the productive hours. Any more is just error prone... and the necessity to double those hours in the CG industry is just plain unnecessary - it's not the softwares fault.. it's un-prepared labour contracts and poor terms that fail at defining clear planning that causes these burn outs. There is plenty of work for EVERYONE, and growing. And more, even if there is no work the creatives have the full freedom to BUILD work with new independant productions or state funded production privately. Clients aren't always necessary. There is no need to cut costs or to compete with other agencies. There simply is.. no need to. And this is me speaking in Colombia, a country with little CG.

Out of experience, it's always good to define a pre-production stage (even charge that period seperately based on time it takes) and define when the production starts after certain milestones are set (approved character design, approved animatic, approved concept design, approved animation style, approved lookdev, etc). Then when production starts, set a term that any creative interventions during this period WILL extend the deadline and increase costs. If you are in the ability to do revisions in Post-Production, you define to what degree those revisions can be (anything animation based, model based, layout or work prior pre-render is forbidden - only with incurring extra costs and deadline extension by X ammount). Design a contract so the client gets what they expect for the price they give with a garunteed workflow that is prone to avoid issues like "Where is the work?" "Why is it taking so long?" "How come this is not how I expected it to be when I had no idea how it should be till I've seen it?" "Why are you charging me more when you've given me nothing?" type issues.

We are statistacally in the most peaceful and healthy stage of human history. We have the best tools available now - who could have thought of realtime SSS, fog, shadows, GI and hair today? Who would have thought of sculpting WITH animation all in the same software? Who would have thought of AI drivin animation? This was unheard of 10 years ago. It's just a matter of perspective and... contract. Clear communication set in "stone" or paper.

Anyway, communities like these are what's nice on the side to unload. Communication. That's really what defines a good job and a bad job in this industry. Great discussion. Keep this up.

NNois · Post by **NNois** » 12 Jun 2018, 12:52

Bullit wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 03:17 So there is no more sand in the desert? so what is there now, an hole? :-D

I know it's not a thread for that but it's all linked. While everyone can have his own liberty of thinking I can't let you saying stupidities...
The sand in the desert can't be used by the humans to build walls for example because the grains are round.
Here's a explaination https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long ... 93721.html

Bullit wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 03:17 No we are not near a civilization collapse and most gas price in Europe are taxes...we are nevertheless near stupidity and quality collapse .

Well I never taked about money, I was talking about energy, money is a unit invented by humans that will never be a part of the equation.

Energie is how you transform the world, how you can be SUPERMAN creating images with a computer.
Actually we are in the descending slope of production (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... 64ccc843f4), while every object used by humans are built with it, from your shirt to the wind turbines ;-)

Draise wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 12:12We are statistacally in the most peaceful and healthy stage of human history.

Where are you living ? Did you open your eyes ?

Draise · Post by **Draise** » 12 Jun 2018, 13:11

I live in Colombia. One of the used to be most violent places on earth in recent history. There are some great scientist and staticians who have published studies on human history and the statistics of today concerning health, hunger, violence, war, famine, disease, poverty and more. It's quite.. positive.

Ted Talk on it
Motiongraphic video explaining it with extra links in the description

And yes, I've done volunteer work in poor areas around the blobe, here and in other thirdworld countries. It's nice to know that people who live in literally the dirt also have a TV or cellphone, surprisingly. It's also nice to know that I could technically make a web/television series and these people can potentially watch it and get some good ideas.

luceric · Post by **luceric** » 12 Jun 2018, 13:19

ignore those depressed forums and go on polycount.com and unity forums

lower 1990s forums turn out != downfall of humanity

NNois · Post by **NNois** » 12 Jun 2018, 14:27

Haha that Ted Talk is literally what people love hearing ;-) that's good to sleep well.
@luceric I'm not aware of thoses talks you're serious ?

Bullit · Post by **Bullit** » 12 Jun 2018, 17:38

Good post Draise, i was paid by the hour, since i know how things generally work would not have accepted anything else. Nevertheless i don't like to work on projects that are badly managed. I liked what you said about how things work in Colombia.

NNois wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 12:52
Bullit wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 03:17 So there is no more sand in the desert? so what is there now, an hole? :-D
I know it's not a thread for that but it's all linked. While everyone can have his own liberty of thinking I can't let you saying stupidities...
The sand in the desert can't be used by the humans to build walls for example because the grains are round.
Here's a explaination https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long ... 93721.html

Bullit wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 03:17 No we are not near a civilization collapse and most gas price in Europe are taxes...we are nevertheless near stupidity and quality collapse .
Well I never taked about money, I was talking about energy, money is a unit invented by humans that will never be a part of the equation.

Energie is how you transform the world, how you can be SUPERMAN creating images with a computer.
Actually we are in the descending slope of production (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... 64ccc843f4), while every object used by humans are built with it, from your shirt to the wind turbines ;-)

Draise wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 12:12We are statistacally in the most peaceful and healthy stage of human history.
Where are you living ? Did you open your eyes ?

Do you think houses can only be build by sand, and it is disappearing all that based on newspaper article ? I remember the peak oil, how it was to end before year 2000 or thereabouts with rationing, how the world would be unbearable hot by now. How we would be in famine because the world could not produce food for all. Instead it is the inverse...

The truth is that we don't know and any "expert" that says so is lying or does not even conceive the limits of knowledge.

Think about one thing: if you think you are a sinner you give up power much easier, now think who wants to portrait you as a sinner?

NNois · Post by **NNois** » 12 Jun 2018, 20:25

Bullit wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 17:38Do you think houses can only be ...

Hey Bullit, I respect you for the background we have in common, but clearly you're speaking too fast without mastering the subject...
The articles I'm linking aren't a single read for me, on the contrary I'm perfectly unbeatable on the subject for about 3 years now.
The subject is hot, very... That's nothing about 2000's, paranoia or something else, that's just real facts put together..

Now please excuse me trowing that at you first, that's just because that subjectS matter for the choice we need to make in the near future.

Cheers

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