FaceRobot Sculpts on Mouth region woes

[probiner]

Working my way into Face Robot workflow.

When tuning my model's lips, with Mouth region sculpts, when I hit "Apply" the mesh changes (!), and I'm left with a transvestite of what I did in Sculpt.



(there's also issues in the top of the Philtrum, but seems to happen only when I open a solved FR scene from 2014SP2 into 2014 and vice-versa)

Found this mailing list thread:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/x ... 83V1fjZYsJ

"Check the map for the soft tissue operator for the mouth, and see if you can reduce the effect by painting it out. "
Don't know where is the Soft Tissue map for the mouth and since there no Mouth Region in the Synoptic...

"On the instance that appears when you hit "mouth", check that there is E,C,I in schematic associated with the node.
Check that there is E,V for the Face and that "facial soft tissue" operator is below the envelope op."
No idea what ECI and EV mean, but check the Schematic and they are present on the respective Sculpt portion object and on Rock's head object
My operator stack is correct.

"I checked with a Rock Falcon scene an this works well in 2013."
Same problem on Mr.Falcon on my side.




Thanks!

Pedro Alpiarça dos Santos

[Nick3d]

Not sure if you already did that, but check:

- If there is any modeling operator in the stack, if so hit FreezeM in order to get rid of those

- Did you use Geometry approximation? if so, when you change the subdivision level Soft ask if you want to make a local copy. I notice that if you click Yes the weight map painting when you modify the regions doesn't work at all, and that could cause the problem with your mesh as well....I think that is related to the fact that is changing geometry/weighting on the lower res mesh instead of the one you're using...so I usually don't make a local copy, so I just click No when asked when using Geo subdv

- Check your sculpt history to see if there are any duplicate sculpt in the same mouth position

Hope it helps ;)

[probiner]

Thank you for the hints. Problem still stands though.

- If there is any modeling operator in the stack, if so hit FreezeM in order to get rid of those
Nothing in there

- Did you use Geometry approximation? if so, when you change the subdivision level Soft ask if you want to make a local copy. I notice that if you click Yes the weight map painting when you modify the regions doesn't work at all, and that could cause the problem with your mesh as well....I think that is related to the fact that is changing geometry/weighting on the lower res mesh instead of the one you're using...so I usually don't make a local copy, so I just click No when asked when using Geo subdv

Never seen this asked to me in SI for Geometry Approximation. Only for those in italic, like Display. Geometry Approximation seems to be always a local property unless one uses a Group Override.

- Check your sculpt history to see if there are any duplicate sculpt in the same mouth position
It's a model from scratch, so no history yet :/

Here's a Jing screencasting of the issue with Rock Falcon. Nothing in the Modeling Stack. Sculpts deleted. You can scrub the timeline and see that when I hit "Apply" there are differences.

VIDEO: http://screencast.com/t/9HFdQYgW6GNt


I thought this was a common issue, since I hit it quite fast. What can I do?

Cheers

[Nick3d]

Hi,

Watching the video I saw that you delete basically everything so you start fresh with the sculpting and I can see, as soon as you try sculpting, the problem is still there...lets see...

Try:
- Take a look at the Lip Stiction under Library > Tools and check if those values are incorrect, means that as soon as you do the sculpt those values changes or they're not properly setup
- Since you're using the Range of motion try to NOT use it, but key the controller values at frame 1 with a neutral position and frame 10 with a smile and do some sculpt and check if the problem is still there

I'm using Soft 2013 x64 ( no service pack ) and I'll check if I have the same problem or not

Also, did you test if you have the same problem with another head? check Mr Fitness or the other models available directly within Softimage, setup the Facerobot rig and then try to do some sculpt, maybe it is something related only with Mr RockFalcon, since I've rigged a lot of heads and I had no problems with the sculpts

Cheers

[Nick3d]

Confirmed, I'm having the same issue using Soft 2013 x64

But

It happens only when I'm using the Range of motion

If I just key a zero pose at frame 1 and a smile at frame 10 the sculpt don't modify the surrounding geometry, but only the one you tweaked

So don't use range of motion!

Hope it helps

[probiner]

Hi Nick.
Been a while. I didn't answer before because I got swamped with many small things to finish and I wanted to have a full round of tests to give and informed reply.

I only had time to test not using ROM when doing sculpts and works fine. But! I only used ROM and Mr.Falcon to show my problem in a common media.
I've actually had this problem when evaluating Faceware Retarteger and doing the sculpts with its motion applied.
So I was just worried the Sculpts are broken with any Motion applied, which kind of defeats the purpose of doing sculpts to fix a performance.

I'll have more time this week to do more tests.


Thanks for the support

[Nick3d]

Hi Nick.
Been a while. I didn't answer before because I got swamped with many small things to finish and I wanted to have a full round of tests to give and informed reply.

I only had time to test not using ROM when doing sculpts and works fine. But! I only used ROM and Mr.Falcon to show my problem in a common media.
I've actually had this problem when evaluating Faceware Retarteger and doing the sculpts with its motion applied.
So I was just worried the Sculpts are broken with any Motion applied, which kind of defeats the purpose of doing sculpts to fix a performance.

I'll have more time this week to do more tests.


Thanks for the support

Hi there

I actually bought last month both Analyzer and Retargeter and honestly I don't recall having this problem with the motion applied...
I'll test it again, but it wont be anytime soon unfortunately, so if you have any news let me know

[probiner]

Heya Nick. Well, we also got the Faceware kit last weekend and haven't been able to do another performance, so I'm using the evaluation performance through an Action on the controls.

Here are my conclusions:


So, to me this problem comes about (just like I had with Falcon's ROM) with any motion keyed, even manually.

One might think the differences are scarce but not so when you think you sculpted the mouth closed but the you hit "Apply" and it isn't closed and looks strange. I'm talking of fine control, which basically goes out the window with this problem.

The workaround I'll be using for now is to have the animators to export actions of the frames that need tweaking. Someone loads the actions in the Rigging scene, makes the sculpts, saves the model and the animators update the referenced model...


If this isn't happening to you Nick... Lucky you!

Cheers