WTF??? Autodesk snubs Softimage in GDC schedule!

[calmasacow]

I have gone thru it a couple times now and I cannot find anything Softimage related in the GDC presentation scheduled on any day!!!

What the hell? Softimage is huge in games!

[Maximus]

I have gone thru it a couple times now and I cannot find anything Softimage related in the GDC presentation scheduled on any day!!!

What the hell? Softimage is huge in games!

well apparently is not that huge to fit in? i dont know

[Tekano]

Calm down calmasacow I know nothing of the games development market in America, nor how 'huge' Softimage is regarding this either now or in the past, you could help by demonstrating how big it actually is or meant to be in comparison? Is there a website showing which autodesk software that games studios use? Obviously AD do not think its that significant, and seems for GDC to be concentrating on something called 'middleware', whatever that is? heres a link from them today about GDC. I dont see Max or Maya here either ;) I have heard Softimage is big in Japan for games though !

[EricTRocks]

Softimage didn't get much play at Siggraph either and seemd that AD is pushing that middleware more and more.

[Bellsey]

ok, no drama here or snub. For this years GDC, Autodesk have focused on their Gameware (aka Middleware) folio and product range, as they are all being announced at the same time with new versions across the board. We have also created a game called Hyperspace Madness, that uses most (if not all) of the Gameware and DCC tools (Maya, Max, Motionbuilder, Softimage and Mudbox), showing how you can use all these things together.

In terms of what's being shown on the booth, the main theatre presentations are showing how the DCC tools were used to create some of the content for Hyperspace Madness. The game was produced in a very tight timeframe and so we used contractors to help us out. As it happens, they used more Maya/Max than they did Softimage, but there's nothing really that unique about the assets that would of stopped Softimage being used.

As for a Softimage presence, I am on the boots pods, showing the Maya Premium Suite which includes Softimage, and Mark is spending alot of his time on the Intel booth showing Softimage. You should see the workstation that his running stuff on, its a beast with something like 16 cores if I recall correctly. His scenes are running really well.

[myara]

I have heard Softimage is big in Japan for games though !

Not as big as I would like to but it seems that it's bigger than it is in the states. In the game industry where I work, Softimage is bigger than 3DSMax, Lightwave and others, but Maya is still the king.

I didn't know this but it seems that Softimage Entertainment Suite is a Japan exclusive package. I don't understand why they don't do the same in other countries. I mean, you don't have to create a new software, only pack a new bundle and sell it. But well, Softimage isn't even listed in the main product list in Autodesk websites (not even in Japan).

[SreckoM]

Softimage isn't even listed in the main product list in Autodesk websites (not even in Japan).

And this will be case while it is under AD. It seems that AD just does not want to present it as direct competition to 3dsMax or Maya.
We should just accept that in live with it. There were ton threads like this, and rarely it change something, so what is purpose ....

[bottleofram]

In terms of what's being shown on the booth, the main theatre presentations are showing how the DCC tools were used to create some of the content for Hyperspace Madness. The game was produced in a very tight timeframe and so we used contractors to help us out. As it happens, they used more Maya/Max than they did Softimage, but there's nothing really that unique about the assets that would of stopped Softimage being used.

Something GDC's army of students/your future customers will never know.

Yes, I realize soft is present, but far too often have it been sidelined in favor of those two. If it was a case of a salesman hiding a gem in the backroom reserved only for the special customers, that would have been great. That would've worked. However, producing a copy of a software cost virtually nothing, so there's no uniqueness to it. When a person sees you tucking it away, have no doubt, hes immediate thought is to look elsewhere.

I'm sorry, Graham, you've been listening to lot of whining lately, but this sort of things just adds to the feeling that ADSK doesn't know what to do with softimage nor why they bought it and how to deal with having 3 similar applications under one roof. When you say you are the company people love to hate, i say no. They'd love to love, but they are never given a reason to do so.

Cheers
Alex

[Tekano]

I didn't know this but it seems that Softimage Entertainment Suite is a Japan exclusive package. I don't understand why they don't do the same in other countries. I mean, you don't have to create a new software, only pack a new bundle and sell it. But well, Softimage isn't even listed in the main product list in Autodesk websites (not even in Japan).

Interesting, it has been mentioned that the lack of exposure on the main Autodesk site and marketing in general was related to numbers of seats sold and Softimage, being in the minority, is such a tiny blip in the scale of things it doesn't deserve the same level of 'attention' that Max / Maya possess. eg Softimage is seen as a companion to Max or Maya. in other words, not good enough to head its own suite. which is downright ridiculous - but that's another issue entirely...

This only available in Japan 'Entertainment suite' indicates the Japanese market being of a different hierarchy, which should at the very least be reflected on the Autodesk Japanese Web site? if 3dsMAX is in the minority in this instance - why is it still prominently advertised / accessed on the front page at autodesk JP ! I still don't get why Softimage is a third class citizen , it really is insulting to long time Softimage users whose entire studio and pipelines are based around Softimage. sometimes the ignorance displayed by Autodesk Marketing strategies really annoy me.

I sincerecly hope that the recent doubling of Softimage maintenance subscription is in no way related to paying for extra 'Marketing' the product, because AD's strategies so far for Softimage, frankly, Suck. must try harder! make the Softimage entertainment suite just like there is a MAX and Maya one, you fools.

[JPWestmas]

What do you mean when you say "Japan Exclusive". I can still buy the max/softimage entertainment suite. Or do you mean a softimage entertainment suite without max and maya? Now that's kinda interesting.

[Bellsey]

For Japan only, Autodesk offered the opportunity for customers for purchase a Softimage Entertainment Creation Suite, the standard version which included Motionbuilder and Mudbox. The reason being that Softimage has always been a strong market for Softimage, especially in games. Outside of that it might not have been deemed viable in terms of business rules and pricing. Although the Suites look like just 'bundled' software, they're not. They are defined as actual separate products and therefore Autodesk (just like any other public company) has to adhere to certain regulations.

In terms of Softimage on Autodesk websites, again as I have said before, forget about the main corporate site and the various localised versions. The various localised Autodesk websites for various countries are just mirrors of the main website and not all the content is fully there. If anything the main Autodesk corp site is really like a hub that leads to other places that do actually provide better information. Personally the main Autodesk website looks kinda dated and could do with an overhaul.

[myara]

Yes we can choose between max maya or si in the standard package.

[Tekano]

Thanks Bellsey for putting up with us lot and trying to keep providing relevant information. Yes the Autodesk corporate site is annoying and frustrating but I find its not the main issue at the moment, if Autodesk have decided in their wisdom that suites are the way forward, yet only offer MAX MAYA suites and not Softimage ones , for us remaining Softimage customers who are not interested in a MAX or Maya as we have everything we need with Softimage.. we are now relegated to the sidelines as we do not want to purchase one of these 'suites' and therefore not a part of the current AD masterplan.. as all the marketing and attention are now on suites where does Softimage as the main pipeline tool fit into this equation? I don't see why, as Myara says, a Softimage suite cannot be made available as copying bits of information is not an issue , its more political - and also Silver subscription.. How the heck can Softimage be appreciated as the (imo) Superior Application that it is when it ONLY promoted as an accessory or 'companion'? from my perspective, Marc petite , a former Softimage employee who heads AD, seems to have a grudge from when he was working at Softimage? for nothing else explains the humiliating treatment that Softimage is currently getting on the suites.

[myara]

If it makes you feel any better, in Japan softimage is more expensive than Maya and costs more than twice the price you have in USA autodesk download. Its about $7100 !! for softimage stand alone without subscription and the license agreement doesn't let you use the software outside your country. So well you don't have a softimage bundle but it's cheaper than max and maya. And way cheaper than Japan's prices.

[origin]

Here 3ds max license costs 6600$, subscription 900$.
Softimage 5500$ and subscription 1500$.
For some unknown reason you can buy only from reseller.
As for license forbidding using software outside the country you bought it in, it's better to check you local law because it seems those frecking corporations think they can put anything they want in the license agreement.

[luceric]

How the heck can Softimage be appreciated as the (imo) Superior Application that it is when it ONLY promoted as an accessory or 'companion'?

Softimage isn't really the Superior application, each of the three apps have different sets of compromises. It's different, and I would say a smaller world; you have to be happy with what's in the box to do everything you need. Whatever app you start with, you accept those compromise and they become your vision of the world.

Some of these compromises have crippled its ability to gain significant traction. For example, being built on 1990s windows API that are now legacy, and having no SDK strategy from day 1. There would need to be years of re-write to reboot that, it's something that's deeply ingrained in the product. While you would do this , the worl would not be staying still.

Softimage has a full development team in place, and plans for the future. But let's not look at the market with rose-colored glasses and pretend Softimage is on equal footing with the other two, that people just see a demo of it to see the light, and can switch anytime. The facts are that 80% of the market is using either Maya or Max, and the rest is everyone else including Softimage. It's a very distant third (although still ahead of Houdini, I think). You have to use Softimage for what it does, enjoy it, and not fantasize about a "big three" reality that really has been "a big two" since the late 1990s.

New users or student do not have a real an equal choice to pick Max, Maya and Softmage. For one thing, it cannot be known what is going to be Softimage's position in the market in a few years, but you can rest assure the other two will still be titans. Best case, I think, Softimage will retain about the same position it has now. It may hinge on whether Maya or Max would get a ICE equivalent and if there are things you can only do in Softimage.