SI2012 web based help - what do you think?

[Hirazi Blue]

Now that Softimage has entered a new era, offering the manuals primarily as web based online help (which can luckily still be downloaded), I would really like to know what you think of the new system.

This is part of a wider initiative across all Autodesk products. Some of the potential benefits include:
- A more dynamic and up-to-date resource (compared to a static copy of the docs shipped with the product). Content can be updated on an on-going basis between releases.
- Documentation can be integrated with other online resources, such as the KB, blogs, and forums, so users can search across all available content.
- Standardization of help systems and formats.
- Reduction of application footprint.

Quoted from here

This topic seems to have two distinct sides to discuss, I would say:
1) what do you think of the primarily web based system?
2) what do you think of the new format, web based or download, as it is using a browser now?

;)

[Maximus]

I like it, the only thing is that for some reason the search function doesnt work!

[Hirazi Blue]

Do you perhaps use Google Chrome?
The documentation search function doesn't work in Google Chrome
as Stephen Blair and I concluded independently today

[Maximus]

hm yeah i've just tested it on firefox and it works. i was using chrome

[ActionArt]

Yep. Chrome doesn't work.

Actually, I don't like the trend for online manuals at all. I know it saves AD money. I guess I'm old school. I like to sit down with a real book and read it. I'm tired of staring at screens, I do that all day (and many nights).

I really wish one could order printed manuals if desired, I'd be willing to pay a fair price for it.

[bottleofram]

How does it save them money? Unless you were specifically comparing an online to printed documentation. But with printed stuff search function is even worse than this clunky one online! ;)

I think its just awful. Maybe i've missed it, but is there an explanation why would one want this change? What was wrong with chm help? Sure its easier to update online stuff, but somehow i dont see it being updated until the next version... And if just a mater of being "cloudy", they're fixing what ain't broken.

Hopefully downloadable docs continue being available in future as well.

[Maximus]

i dont get what is the problem with this help anyway, you can download it, as soon as the search function works, whats the problem guys? its just a help

Download it, and keep it into a folder, give the right path from within softimage preferences and thats it

[ActionArt]

How does it save them money?

Yes, I was just comparing online to printed. I want a book dammit!
I guess I'm in the minority though. Of course I would like the online help as well for the search functions.

I do hope they never eliminate the downloadable version, I don't like web based. I'm not always online.

[bottleofram]

i dont get what is the problem with this help anyway, you can download it, as soon as the search function works, whats the problem guys? its just a help

Download it, and keep it into a folder, give the right path from within softimage preferences and thats it

Its not really a problem, but it is slower. Even locally. You'd expect a progression with each new iteration, not regression.

You're right, tho. its just a help

[Maximus]

i just dont have any issue, didnt know it was slower, here is blazing fast since its local
oh well

[Hirazi Blue]

Well, I must protest: a help system needs to be fast also, as you never know how much help you are going to need. It varies from browser to browser too, even with the local help, where IE seems to be slowest, Firefox & Opera seem pretty fast (based upon my own experiences so far, nothing conclusive!) And by that I mean, they are pretty fast when initializing the index and search function. This seems to be the main drawback when compared to the old chm. a chm take time setting up the index and search function on first use only. This web based documentation seems to have to initialize (used as a "layman's term" in this case) the index and search index each and every time.
And I still do not get, why there seems to be no download version of the help for Mental Ray, Composite & Matchmover...
;)

P.S. & rant: I find the whole web based help a very bad idea. The aforementioned lack of download version of several key products shows how well thought out this is IMHO. Furthermore it gives the impression that documentation is a mere afterthought, not something you can expect from professional software that costs quite a lot. And all this obviously has a lot to do with the fact that my SI-PC isn't connected to the internet & I don't think I should be asked to do all the work for obtaining the "missing" help (MR, Comp, MM) myself (hint: WinHTTrack). The arguments named here never sounded all that convincing to me, but hey its my own fault for having a disconnected PC primarily, so I shouldn't complain. Right?

edit 2: I think I have found a solution/workaround for the Google Chrome search issue: just open a separate tab pointing to the file "C:/Program Files/Autodesk/Help/softimage2012/en_us/sdkguide/search.html" directly (assuming your working with a local default install). As a separate tab the search function does seem to work in Chrome, strangely enough...

[Bellsey]

I like the idea of the online and downloadable help and I haven't experiance any slow down. The good thing is that it can be scaleable to different size customers. For larger customers with alot of seats they can download the help and host it themselves over there own network, without having to worry about online and firewall issues.

As for Composite and Matchmover, well those apps aren't so crucial and they're also no longer avaliable as standalone apps. However, the help actually gets installed locally, if you choose to install the apps.
With Mental Ray for Maya/Max/Softimage, most of the info you need is in the main package docs. Mental Ray Standalone, well that's a seperate product and probably doesn't require the type/style of downloadable docs as the other apps? Thats my take on it.

[Hirazi Blue]

Concerning the help for Composite & MatchMover I stand extremely & shamefully corrected.
I just assumed that SI switching to web based help meant those two doing the same (which they didn't).
Important note to self: never assume... ("at least not too often")
Thanks for clearing that up, Bellsey.


Concerning Mental Ray, I respectfully disagree. From my own humble experience the MR docs & tutorials have always been and probably will in the future still be an extremely helpful addition to the userguide.
;)

[Bellsey]

I'm not saying the MR docs are not useful, but there's a difference between the Mental Ray thats including in the main app, and then Mental Ray Standalone. Standalone is actually a Mental Images product, and we don't do the official documentation for that.

[Bellsey]

Moderator edit: I removed a post of mine about the online MR docs, because I wanted to end the discussion.
Bellsey was apparently however already writing his reaction - HB

yes, but we don't actually write it, as far as I know. It will be on our server because we also sell Mental Ray Standalone.