WTF??? Autodesk snubs Softimage in GDC schedule!

[Mathaeus]

I wasn't snarky... they are working the Maya platform to transform it into what is considered next generation. The difference are in, for example, how the application would reference assets, how it uses the GPU, etc. XBR is the same thing for Max.
It might be interesting to talk about what you guys think would be considered next-gen...

when XBR was announced, I've re-posted this to local, all-in-all 3d forum, just to see what people thinking about it. (all-in-all means about 3000 posts related to Max, 900 for Lightwave, about 300 for Maya, 300 as well about Softimage, but half of that by me ).

No one positive response to XBR, exactly no one... What will be with old tutorials, what will be with this and that plugin. In Max community too, new API (every second version), means good number of deaths for third party tools. I've also discovered that no one knows who is Ken Pimentel, for example. But everyone knows for mr Vlado of VRay. Any strong move by AD could be very, very risky....

Next gen, having something extra, better, well I think this is a bit retro way of thinking, somehow typical for Softimage users (me too , maybe for some developers too . For so many people today, 3d app is just a tool. And all these tools are unbelievable overcomplicated for new galls and guys.

btw I have no idea what would be 'next gen' 3d app. I could imagine next gen car, cellphone, vacuum cleaner... you just change a habits a bit, use the next gen instead of old one. But 3d app should load old scenes and serve the old workflows too....

[ActionArt]

What a pity that Avid sold Soft to them.

Have you seen what Avid is doing lately (or not doing?) I think it saved SI's life to get away from them. Poor Avid DS has slipped into oblivion under Avid. I wish someone would buy that from them too.

Anyway, next gen for me would look like this:

Max, Maya, SI all merged to one (yes I'm ducking bullets already). Just wait, hear me out.

1 core. Multiple interfaces and interaction modes, like Max, Maya, SI, Nextgen interface options that are easily customized. It would feel just like you're working on your favorite ap.

Right now AD is re-inventing the wheel so much and the plugin industry is way too fractured. Wouldn't it be nice to have access to all Max and Maya and SI plugins? With 1 core you could do that.

Also, a major advantage would be in employment. Right now you have to pick and gamble. Way too much training is wasted. 1 core would solve that.

I say, take the best of 3, merge them! Call it Maya 2 since that's how Maya began with Alias and Wavefront. It worked.

The most sacred thing to users is the workflow so preserve that for each one.

[SreckoM]

I would say Houdini might be something like next-gen app.

[owei]

@ActionArt
I meant selling Softimage to AD. Not meant, that they sold it at all...there were some other firms been interested for sure. Selling stuff to a monopolist hurts the competition and the market will loose innovative force...

Well, and taking the "best" is easy to say. Who decides, what is the "best"? Who decides, which features will be ported and which won´t? Opinions will differ for sure. I don´t trust in AD, in their innovative power, as one can hardly see in my posts. Maybe a monopolist can´t be innovative. Hopefully the few competitors will take their chance, if AD comes up with the new Maya.

[myara]

In a perfect world where code can be merged with one click that would be excellent. But in reality I don't think that's quite simple.

The nex-gen candidate shouldn't be Maya. Let's bash it a little. Maya structure is pretty messy already IMHO. Maya weights breaks with anything and not even the Non Deformer History works the way it should, like FreezeM. Just to mention one of my multiple frustrations when I have to work with Maya. It feels dated because it hasn't changed too much in ages in modelling/ weighting/ symmetry problems, etc.

Everybody says that Maya's SDK is wonderful. I'm not a programmer but I like more to script in SI than mel. When XSI became a solid software everybody had already built their pipelines and tools around mel but that's it. I think mel is a little overrated.

Since most major studios were already using Maya and developed their own tools, the middle and small ones started to use Maya too to work with them, and the same with schools and those poor students thinking that knowing Maya they will be able to make the next Toy Story. Now you know why everybody use a clumsy tool like Maya.

I don't think Maya UI shines at all. I think it's quite messy too. The ctrl shift feature to create buttons is pretty cool though, I want that. But you may be referring to Maya's viewport, well that is impressive, specially to a SI user.

One good thing that I can't deny is that you can edit an .ma file with a notepad. And even interchange files between versions. Impossible in SI.

Anyway, what ActionArt is saying sounds something like Softimage has been trying with its predefined keyboards. They just aren't as good as they should.

I'm also planning to stick with SI even after it's production had stopped. Well, until something better gets out.

[ace63]

I don't think Maya UI shines at all. I think it's quite messy too.

Sorry, I was talking about UI customization and not the current UI itself, which is a mess.

[ActionArt]

@ActionArt
Selling stuff to a monopolist hurts the competition and the market will loose innovative force...

Very true. I wish someone else had snapped it up too but I'm not sure who would actually do a better job. There is still plenty of competition and lets hope they keep up.

I know merging is certainly not easy by any stretch. It would take years. But right now, they all do the same thing. They model, animate and render 3d meshes. Surely most of that can be combined and improved at the same time. It's what made Maya the leader today.

Not sure if AD is the best at deciding what is good and what should be included and not included though...

[Mathaeus]

By the way, did AD ever build an application from scratch on their own..?

well, they made Toxik, too ....

[Chris_TC]

I would say Houdini might be something like next-gen app.

Applications are always updated with new features. In terms of features, we're all pretty modern already. But a next gen application would have to be different in its entire approach. So I totally agree: Houdini is what I consider next gen.

This is extremely funny for two reasons:
1) Houdini has been around for a long time. Next gen has always been there for us to grasp.
2) The one application that becomes more and more Houdini-like (more and more "next gen") with every version is ignored by the world.

[Bellsey]

Bellsey, couple of questions:

Firstly, does this proposition (use maya/max as a main platform, softimage as an accessory) have decisive role in their respective developments? Meaning, will softimage continue to strongly emphasize areas that are sorely lacking in the other two?

Secondly, you say suits could easily be seen as 2 softimage packages with max or maya as accessories. Why arent we seeing an effort to make softimage user comfortable in those two then? I think i speak in the name of all softies who have been forced to work with either max or maya when i say i do not appreciate being both thrown into an environment i clearly do not have high opinion of, and having to adjust how i navigate in my preferred one just so i can have some consistency.

And finally, is the sum of softimage seats in large studios bigger than that of smaller to midsized ones combined? Its a very flimsy question, because, how do you decide where to draw a line between large and midsized, but i know you cannot talk of specific numbers so being accurate is not really an option here. The roughest possible guess would clear some things out. Mainly why are we always talking of converting people/studios, making them "see the light", when we all know users are very, VERY unlikely to do so after years of experience with the other package. Why take a fruitless road when so many new seats are being bought every year? Not to mention that from the business standpoint, it makes no sense to "convert", so lets drop that. I'd just like to know how is anyone who have taken an invested interest in softimage to feel assured knowing its userbase is being hindered and solely dependent on how many studios buy into this suits idea.

I fully expect to be accused of being too simplistic, but there's really nothing complicated about how ADSK seems to perceive this whole situation.

Ok, there's a lot there and I'm not sure I can really directly answer things. I certainly can't talk about future developments, roadmaps and numbers of installed seats.

In terms of this platform that Luceric has mentioned, there's many factors at play here. Yes, Maya has been mentioned, personally I prefer not to pin it down to a particular package though, as I think people start to get the wrong idea. Instead I see it as very much an 'Autodesk Platform'. Sure Maya might be at the heart of it and following what others have said it, you can see that it makes sense and its a logical choice, but all our offerings can play their part. We're not talking about just film and tv here, but also games and out middleware offerings as well. Like all the products, they all have their direction, which not only serves core customers needs but also other aspects such as Suites.

This might sound hard for some to believe, but Autodesk doesn't sit around dreaming of stuff up for the hell of it, alot of of what we do and the work undertaken is very much driven my technology trends and also what our customers want. Many of us internally have a good grasp of what people want, but we also validate alot with customers as well. Many are already using many of our products, so better collaboration, interop and standardisation become very important and frequently requested. From my perspective, I'm seeing more and more Maya/Max users wanting to look at and use Softimage more, mainly for ICE, but there's also Softimage users/studios also looking at using Maya/Max for certain aspects as well. This is where having an 'Autodesk platform' kinda makes sense, yes it allows more interop with Maya, but it also cuts both ways. It allows better interop with Max and Softimage as well, not to mention Motionbuilder and Mudbox as well.

In terms of Suites, there's always alot of work of ensuring people can easily navigate between the various apps. Even small things like interaction modes, keyboard mapping and yes, even the viewcube can make a big difference in people being able to navigate around a package and use it. In recent versions its got better, but I know there always room for improvement.

[Tekano]

sorry Bellsey but that sounds exactly like the kind of drivel that we keep on hearing from Autodesk, almost every single thing you said is a repeat of the obtuse marketing speak from the corporate website, its extremely ambiguous and from my perspective tries to disguise the inevitable, which is all we need to know right now. Cold hard facts or don't bother. Offerings play a part?!!? what, like at some temple we sacrifice ourselves to the greater go(o)d? that is to become the ultimate Autodesk platform. (Maya) Viewcube makes a big difference? to whom exactly? am sure its not your intention, but from a calm resignation this has just made me more incensed and angry!

[SreckoM]

This is extremely funny for two reasons:
1) Houdini has been around for a long time. Next gen has always been there for us to grasp.
2) The one application that becomes more and more Houdini-like (more and more "next gen") with every version is ignored by the world.

Which at the end proofs that AD acquisition of SI was the worse thing that might happen to SI ... It is obvious that when it is about investment at Autodesk, SI is like ... nowhere.
I know that I sound pessimistic, maybe too much, but this is really disappointing.

[luceric]

ha ha ha, actually nobody asked us to add the view cube, I'm the one that asked for it to be added. Why? "cause I was SOO tired of people filling the list and the board with view cube fear mongering that I asked Brent to add it in, so the community could get passed that as soon as possible. colleagues at Autodesk were very impressed, because it only took us basically the time it takes to read the docs to add this in Softimage, while apparently it had taken weeks in other products. Now every release people are no longer wondering if this is the one when we'll get the viewcube. symbolically, it was important to get that out of the way.

[gustavoeb]

lol

[SreckoM]

ha ha ha, actually nobody asked us to add the view cube, I'm the one that asked for it to be added. Why? "cause I was SOO tired of people filling the list and the board with view cube fear mongering that I asked Brent to add it in, so the community could get passed that as soon as possible. colleagues at Autodesk were very impressed, because it only took us basically the time it takes to read the docs to add this in Softimage, while apparently it had taken weeks in other products. Now every release people are no longer wondering if this is the one where we'll get the ciewcube. symbolically, it was important to get that out of the way.

[Tekano]

see! Bellsey has plainly lived at Autodesk for too long , has adopted the bullshit and way of speaking. just tell the truth Goddamit. Luc Eric, Bravo sir I salute you