WTF??? Autodesk snubs Softimage in GDC schedule!

[origin]

still...looking at previous releases...I believe SI is evolving, max is patching old code with their xbr scam, and maya sucks.

this thread has only 80 posts. cgtalk's "say goodbye to maya?" has 500

[Nizar]

still...looking at previous releases...I believe SI is evolving, max is patching old code with their xbr scam, and maya sucks.

this thread has only 80 posts. cgtalk's "say goodbye to maya?" has 500

Totally agree

I would like add another point, in this topic the lamentation is about marketing, in "say goodbye to maya?" the lamentation strictly about software bugs/crash/workflow/capabilities.
What is better: a worse marketing about your good favourite software or have a worse software with a good marketing?

[geoath]

Luceric wrote something quite interesting in a previous post:
"It might be interesting to talk about what you guys think would be considered next-gen..."

this could mean that SI, with the way it evolves, it might already considered "next-gen", or at least for now it doesn't need something like XBR for Max, or a complete UI rewrite as Maya!
Just a positive point of view ;)

[ace63]

I fail to see how Maya could be transformed into anything called next-gen. The codebase is like what? 20 years old?
With every release more crap gets added on top of that and the workflow is a world of pain - and yes I have to work with it like 50% of the time.

When Autodesk gets the best ideas from other software and tries to scrap them into Maya a complete rewrite would certainly be faster and better.

[Tekano]

meanwhile at Autodesk...

[bottleofram]

Luceric wrote something quite interesting in a previous post:
"It might be interesting to talk about what you guys think would be considered next-gen..."

this could mean that SI, with the way it evolves, it might already considered "next-gen", or at least for now it doesn't need something like XBR for Max, or a complete UI rewrite as Maya!
Just a positive point of view ;)

I would avoid being drawn into that discussion. You're either talking about pure fantasy (uber app out of nowhere) or current-gen with cream on top.

Either way, luceric is placing a lot of trust into a crowd that brought you the last couple of iterations of maya. I cannot but raise an eyebrow to such enthusiasm, really.

this thread has only 80 posts. cgtalk's "say goodbye to maya?" has 500

Wow, that thread is still going on? Amazing. Dont have time to read it all, but it backs my point superbly. A lot of whining, complaining, crying, hair pulling and arguing to end most of negative posts with "but i still love maya". So yeah, nobody is complaining about the interoperability - giving people a choice is a good thing. But stating the only way forward is mixed pipelines is only understandable looking through the cold corporate green tinted glasses.

[Pooby]

"It might be interesting to talk about what you guys think would be considered next-gen..."

I think the ultimate App (for me) would be built around an ICE-like visual programming language, and so flexible and deep that one could build the actual App itself with it, but the high level 3d tools would be as user friendly and comprehensive as XSI's (or better) so users scared by the idea of programming wouldnt have to use anything but these tools and the constant stream of new interesting ones shared by the community.
All tools and aspects of the program open to customisation with the underlying programming language - which is where ICE falls short right now, but basically, the Jist of SI's direction seemed to be heading here.

If in 10 years Maya could be totally and utterly controlled with an ICE-like language as above, then we could just build Softimage within it.

[owei]

@luceric
my next-gen tool:
- loads of icons
- clumsy workflow
- strange bugs
- need for TDs help and scripts for every fart..
but a huuuuge installed base..that sounds like a good future to me!
And, last not least, a veeery dark interface of course, that will get darker and darker from release to release! Oh..naming is necessary!! Perhaps AD should go with Apple and stop this silly naming with the years nonsense. Just say: "The New Maya." That will impress people and maybe they are stupid enough. Marketing at it´s best! I love that!

Asking Softies about their next-gen wishes? I think, Soft is next-gen already in many concerns. SI´s workflow is not improvable very much, I think. Viewport, under the hood and performance wise might be something to improve. Also some tools should get an overhaul (Animation Mixer, UV-Editor, modeling tools etc.). But over all...no need for "next-gen" over here..ICE does the rest..

@ace63
agree...that´s what my friends telling me (programmers..) that something like this won´t be an easy task. Transforming nearly 15-20 year old code into something "next-gen" sounds a bit ridiculous at all

By the way, did AD ever build an application from scratch on their own..?

cheers,
oli

[Pooby]

Transforming nearly 15-20 year old code into something "next-gen" sounds a bit ridiculous at all

Well, starting from scratch hasnt exactly got a great history of success either.
XSI didn't work out as it deserved to.
And lets not even get started on Lightwave CORE. (after all they hardly did)

The thing about Maya that makes it appealing to larger studios isnt what most users think of as Maya. Its default workflow and tools are almost irrelevant.
Its just a 3d platform that is used as a central hub for all their proprietory tools.

[Paulrus]

"It might be interesting to talk about what you guys think would be considered next-gen..."

I think the ultimate App (for me) would be built around an ICE-like visual programming language, and so flexible and deep that one could build the actual App itself with it,

That kind-of sounds like Fabric-Engine to me... Have you looked at it? Helge is doing some pretty cool stuff.

-Paul

[xsisupport]

By the way, did AD ever build an application from scratch on their own..?

Yes. AutoCAD. Inventor.

[Kzin]

Transforming nearly 15-20 year old code into something "next-gen" sounds a bit ridiculous at all

Well, starting from scratch hasnt exactly got a great history of success either.
XSI didn't work out as it deserved to.
And lets not even get started on Lightwave CORE. (after all they hardly did)

the max rewrite was a big fail because it was coded without to ask the artists. the software then was unusable for an artist. so they now goes the way of the rewrite thing with xbr.
lightwave core was a fail because they had no money to develope further. they decided to stop core at this point and migrate the features to the current lightwave step by step.
xsi was a different thing with all the company changes and target market changes and all that.

i am not sure if its impossible to write something new from scratch. the current ad way is best for ad because they get payed for the work instead of having an extra team which codes software for years without some income for that work.

[luceric]

I fail to see how Maya could be transformed into anything called next-gen. The codebase is like what? 20 years old?

FYI, there is technically only a two year difference between Maya and Softimage. 1995 vs 1997 start of development, 1998 vs 2000 for the V1.0 release. There are indeed older bits from wavefront in Maya, but the node core, modeling, Mel, SDK and UI were new at the time.

[ace63]

I know that there is not much difference in age for Maya vs. Softimage, and you can feel this age in certain parts of Softimage.
But still Softimage feels overall more modern than Maya and there are only few Areas which need Vast improvements - and you already mentioned those:
UI and SDK, which is where Maya shines and which is the reason it became so widely adopted.

[owei]

By the way, did AD ever build an application from scratch on their own..?

Yes. AutoCAD. Inventor.

..2% of the AD protolio..not bad ;)

Well, if AD wants to polish old code...go forward. I won´t pay for it anymore.
What a pity that Avid sold Soft to them. But complaining does not help, I know. So I go with pooby. If AD will kill Softimage, I will work with it as long as possible..

[SreckoM]

^^ Yeah, I can only agree with that too.