offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

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Lord Futzi Voldemort
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 27 Mar 2013, 15:24

Nizar wrote:All in all I'm not so disappointing like I was during the leak days.

Softimage is listed into Top Autodesk Software, after the shock of the first presentation now I think the new logos is nice, and streaming presentation was not bad at all (I fell a bit of love for the software). Now softiamge appear like part of the big family, not like a stranger, seems the marketing regard softimage cage a bit (not only a particle plugin, but a complete software, for character, vfx and videogame). Is a big step forward, because appear a bit more clear autodesk intention (they don't want axe softimage, I think now is clear)

The release is not bad, tons of bugs fix, I agree when someone said it is not a major release, but is not so terrible. Stability and reliability is not a feature you can sell so easily, but is a big plus IMHO.

HQV don't convince me at all, it lag, and lag too much, but I'm curios to know the hardware used during presentation (was a laptop not and not a laptop workstation like dell or lenovo), so can be better on a desktop with a decent card. I hope this don't work only into Nvidia hardware, because I'm oriented on amd.

About products comparison, ok Houdini have a impressive list of new enhancements and features, but I doing characters, modelling a lot and doing a bit of animation, for me Houdini is practical useless and don't find anything can help me or convince me to learn houdini. So, if anyone need the features proposed by Houdini, can jump into the sidefx boat (houdini appear to me far from softimage idea of a generalist all around software). I don't need at all. The some for Modo, I like the render engine, but after that, I don't see a real step forward in moving all my job into modo enviroment. Actually I'm confortable with softimage (excluding rendering side).

Edit: Nice. I want bet again on softimage, I'll renew my subscription: http://area.autodesk.com/2014unfold/pro ... tml#future
This is how we measure the quality of upgrades? level of disappointment?
Make a copy of this video. Although statements like "we want" say nothing, and "exciting" it will be, that's for sure. the last week was pretty exciting, wasn´t it? only the release isn´t.

luceric
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by luceric » 27 Mar 2013, 15:33

has anyone evaluated using HQV but not for ambiant occlusion, dof and all the other expensive camera multi-pass effects? Just for better texturing workflows and visualization? btw if I'm not mistaken 2014 includes shader caching so switching HQV on should not have the extreme shader-compilation delays time that 2013 suffers from.

Lord Futzi Voldemort
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 27 Mar 2013, 15:47

luceric wrote:has anyone evaluated using HQV but not for ambiant occlusion, dof and all the other expensive camera multi-pass effects? Just for better texturing workflows and visualization? btw if I'm not mistaken 2014 includes shader caching so switching HQV on should not have the extreme shader-compilation delays time that 2013 suffers from.
Yes I have. It slows down my workflow, doesn´t work with Vray shaders, and objects with more complex shader trees tend to vanish completely.
I'm now part of an endangered species...

mirkoj
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by mirkoj » 27 Mar 2013, 16:12

in short HQV is still not usable in workflow....

luceric
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by luceric » 27 Mar 2013, 16:20

obviously, it cannot psychically produce a viewport prevew of vray shaders.

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ace63
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by ace63 » 27 Mar 2013, 16:22

I heard the conversion of shaders is pretty slow (someone talked about 10+ minutes for more complex scenes) - is it at least multithreaded?

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Nizar
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Nizar » 27 Mar 2013, 16:35

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:
This is how we measure the quality of upgrades? level of disappointment?
Make a copy of this video. Although statements like "we want" say nothing, and "exciting" it will be, that's for sure. the last week was pretty exciting, wasn´t it? only the release isn´t.
I, like you, don't work with "exciting" news and fabulous half backed features (who said HQV?), so I prefer some nice new tools and improvement in some area pretty old (one for all, Hair system, Cinema has a great Hair module), but for my work, and everybody job, stability is a great plus, a must have. Agree a bug fix is not a majority release, but I don't know how many time this bugs fix take away, and in any case is very nice to have it.

Maya and Max has not big features, Maya has a modelling plugin (I think softimage modelling tools for character are better, we need a real symmetry) and max a crowd system (please, don't tell me you would like to have the max crowd system...). Softimage has a great bug fix so we can see in next release (or point release) something new and capable.

What like, is now softimage appear like a ADSK software, not the "last acquisition", the stranger who can be sacrificed to steal treasures. Also, is clear the software is not developed with the suite in mind, why 3dsm need a crowd when you can use softimage crowd? Also, why you need HQV when you have maya viewport 2.0 and Nitro?

Also, when you have all and are the first, is very difficult innovate, if I look to other software I see only things they don't have compared to softimage.
So is clear the development continue independently by the suite.
Really optimistic about softimage 2015

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dwigfor
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by dwigfor » 27 Mar 2013, 17:54

From the looks of it, Autodesk won't have a booth @ Siggraph this summer, down in Anaheim! http://s2013.siggraph.org/sites/default ... -30-12.pdf * Can you confirm, Bellsey/Luceric?

Don't they want to show off their new logos/branding? 8-}


* Floor Plan Subject To Change (2/27/13)

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bottleofram
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by bottleofram » 27 Mar 2013, 18:18

Nizar wrote:What like, is now softimage appear like a ADSK software, not the "last acquisition", the stranger who can be sacrificed to steal treasures. Also, is clear the software is not developed with the suite in mind, why 3dsm need a crowd when you can use softimage crowd? Also, why you need HQV when you have maya viewport 2.0 and Nitro?

Also, when you have all and are the first, is very difficult innovate, if I look to other software I see only things they don't have compared to softimage.
So is clear the development continue independently by the suite.
Cannot agree with that. Ever since the acquisitions, the pattern has been there. They sell products, but they are releasing suites. Case in point, between 2009 and 2011 maya releases were very slim and the stability worsened. Among other things, they were implementing Qt - pretty heavy undertaking, it's been said - so they release a version after version of nothing updates. Good thing Softimage has been doing well in those times, eh? Nope. Here we are, 2 consecutive releases you could comfortably live without. And that's with a skipped SAP.

Now, why is that? I mean, they charge for each version and subscription after all. Could it be that they aren't actually producing versions at all? That would make a whole lot of sense naming them by years (plus 1 for whatever reason).

It takes 3 years to produce a feature ready to be used as originally indented... That's where we are and how it's going to be.

Lord Futzi Voldemort
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 27 Mar 2013, 18:29

Nizar wrote: Really optimistic about softimage 2015
And so have we all been for 2014.
Don´t take this the wrong way, everyone has to decide for him or herself. But actually I more and more get the impression this whole fuzz is not about features, fixes or anything like that, but about softimage and it´s users getting enough attention. That's alright but keep in mind: you can´t eat attention. Attention is very easy to simulate and costs almost nothing. AD knows that and believe me, you will get attention. If that's all it takes to make you pay... all the better for AD.

You know I said in another thread "this is not a religion, this is business". I admit I might have been wrong.
I'm now part of an endangered species...

scaron
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by scaron » 27 Mar 2013, 20:19

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:Yes I have. It slows down my workflow, doesn´t work with Vray shaders, and objects with more complex shader trees tend to vanish completely.
this is interesting to me. everyone is envious of max and maya high quality viewports but they don't do this either. its up to chaosgroup to create realtime versions or at least approximate versions of the shaders so when you switch to high quality viewport they will work. you can even do this yourself in the meantime :)

i am not 100 % sure of this but i believe softimage's high quality viewport shaders is mostly mental mill. where the other viewports are not... (not that they cannot use mental mill output to glsl or .fx) so i think this is partly the issue, with the conversion time.

s

Kzin
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Kzin » 27 Mar 2013, 21:00

vray mental mill support was planned, but dont know what happended to this.

Bullit
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Bullit » 27 Mar 2013, 22:13

I think there haven't be any stability in management and crew in all 3 main Autodesk softwares in last year.
Softimage was the worse off since it was longer. The failed 2013 release(no working HQV, problematic CrowdFX besides its reduced appeal) was also an heavy legacy for 2014 , and it seems HQV will weight on resources once again for 2015.
There have been an hint in mailing list that the SP will be more comprehensive this time. Also Adam Sale presented yesterday some nodes that aren't yet in crowdfx.

But what is important is to see if they have any strategic idea for the product, developing its core, where they want to develop ICE and not just add TD creation level stuff like Lagoa and CrowdFX.

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ThomasHelzle
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by ThomasHelzle » 27 Mar 2013, 22:48

Holy macaroni am I happy with the decision to drop my subscription two years ago... =))

=))

=))

Cheers,

Tom

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FXDude
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by FXDude » 27 Mar 2013, 23:29

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote: .. I more and more get the impression this whole fuzz is not about features, fixes or anything like that, but about softimage and it´s users getting enough attention.
I think you put your finger right on it.

But I also think that, although perhaps still not on an "equal footing",
*public outspoken recognition* or acknoledgement (however inexpensive),
is what SI needed most, (way) above any feature they might have come up with.

And was the single biggest thing that put it's very (or the quality of it's) forthcoming existance in question.

Also, there is now a long time SI user as a product designer,
and a PM who apart from looking like a nice guy, seems to be open-minded, able to face critisism & be quite approachable,
and (without knowing his background) seems to have some interest, and be quite familiar with SI and the community.

And has (at least verbally) proved to not be completely indifferent,
and has actually introduced himself here (Hi and welcome Daniel! :] )

While without necessarily needing to have daily posts,
I would hope his presence would not be limited to his introduction.

Nevertheless, he seems to at least come check-out the pulse every now and then.

___________________

For the Product Page,

Overall the videos are informative and well explained
yet can be on the long side for product page videos or could have been more like overviews.


And obviously, the HQV could have been shown in a much (much!) better light.

The new shader caching wasn't at all mentioned, which really should be a big thing.
(normally, caching should greatly reduce or eliminate lag when switching back to it after the first time)

Switching to the HQV previously took quite a bit of time (the first time & every time)

And I don't know what system was used to make the demo,
but it looked like 2-3 seconds per frame, while I know it can do much much better
even on a very regular system (2013).


Also overall in all new videos, more efforts could have been made on making scenes more optimal
and perhaps more (or at least some) efforts at could have been invested at basically making them nicer looking,
even if it involved actually hiring external artists.

Knowing it's possible to make pretty good looking environment & props even without too much fancy shading going.


_______________________

For the new general branding, although I think they may have gone a fit far towards consistency,

Image

( I personally would have vouched for each product's (original) logos to have been made of folded paper
as opposed to their first letters as logos)


But still I think they did a good job, and find everything generally quite nice looking.

And the typeface (consistant across all products)
just so happens to make "SOFTIMAGE" look like a retro version of the original logo (lol)

Image



BUT! For the Softimage 'S' Origami ...

while I don't think it's so bad,
it doesn't strike me as being super refined or otherwise very "cool" looking.

Perhaps because I'm more difficult for the SI logo as an SI user..
yet I also find the same issue with the the Gameware 'G'.

It strikes me as looking somewhat "clunky".. the main lines and tone intensities don't really seem to "flow" or seems to lack cohesion,
either on it's own, OR compared to some of the other origami Logos.

Image


I think it's that.. it doesn't look like folded backlit cellophane paper,
but like "broken", or like it's made of 2 (independent) overlapping pieces of geometry
as opposed to one piece forming a single shape.

But I dunno.

______________________

For the dilemma of "to subscribe, or not to subscribe", it can indeed be quite a dilemma!

And most points that have been made in favor of terminating subscription AND in favor of NOT, were all quite valid.

Actually not renewing would be understandable given how thin this version (or previous ones, not unlike other products)
has been feature wise (for the money, while subscription not necessarily being all about features for everyone)

Also considering how the bug fix list, which was quite extensive, isn't the kind of thing that should come with a price tag.
(without making abstraction of the work involved)

Yet in light of an (actually) brighter looking general outlook despite that,
a, lets say "mass exidous" might not be the best thing..

(even though .. had the unfold not have any positive aspects,
a "mass exidous" [along with a well articulated petition] might have been a good thing,

Despite the risk of resulting in the exact opposite of a positive effect,
given how it was [unsurprisingly] overwhelmingly unanimous that it was to keep using the last version
(or something else in many cases)
meaning; while not switching to either Maya, 3DSM, Autocad, Revit or any other AD product.)


But all in all, for me I'm mostly happy (if not somewhat relieved) about SI having been (reasonably/openly) considered. :) #:-s ;;)


..
Last edited by FXDude on 28 Mar 2013, 06:30, edited 1 time in total.

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FXDude
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by FXDude » 28 Mar 2013, 06:21

While staying in the same spirit, I think this is what I meant by "flowing lines"..


Image

Maybe could I submit it to someone .. without necessarily suggesting using one of those,
but maybe could it inspire/motivate a new early revision,

The original isn't so bad, but I don't like the idea of having it pasted everywhere representing SI, cause I think it could easily be made to be "cooler"