Who is thinking of stopping there Autodesk subscriptions

[Dwindleflip]

I spoke to harshly. First off, I think Softimage is very good program but its not perfect. I cant deny that I feel disappointed by the stagnation of feature improvement/development.

[t4d]

Yeah i really can't understand why will someone make the first post just to write just that, maybe it is better to go here and check all the work done: https://www.si-community.com/forum/v ... 9&start=50

I think the work done with softimage and the artist choosing to use it do show it's a the best 3d tool out there, no one here is saying softimage is bad and (I must say to be honest ) if "this Negative subject" that I created was in any other Software forum you would have screams of we should move over to Software X but that won't happen here because..but NO wants to move !!

we ( maybe just me ?) just feel the slowing of forward motion in softimage development is noticeable, But at the same time the size autodesk is asking for yearly payments seem unfair. specially when you compair to other 3d packages.

and logically if you pay for afew SI seats that bill is pretty high and that money could go to many other places and get better value. Zbrush all round or Vray or well,.. the list could go on and on 2 years of adding other stuff and back to Softimage seem like a good idea and better value for money.

[xsisupport]

I will wait and test the new version on it's own merit.

It cost me nothing right now, my subscription is good until Aug. Plenty of time to see what the new team has done, return of investment so to speak. I'll make my decision later, on sound testing and evaluation, no hurry, no rush judgement, open minded kind of way. If it deserved a renewed subscription, then all good.

Just remember that previous version usage requires subscription. If you activate a 2014 license and then let your subscription expire, then you can use 2014 only.

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

I will wait and test the new version on it's own merit.

It cost me nothing right now, my subscription is good until Aug. Plenty of time to see what the new team has done, return of investment so to speak. I'll make my decision later, on sound testing and evaluation, no hurry, no rush judgement, open minded kind of way. If it deserved a renewed subscription, then all good.

Just remember that previous version usage requires subscription. If you activate a 2014 license and then let your subscription expire, then you can use 2014 only.

Jepp, one of the things that brought AD in this mess. Jokes on you.

[Falam]

Regardless of what is new in 2014, I will stay with Softimage, even if I'm the only one left

Looks like I ended another thread

[t4d]

with 2014 guide out http://download.autodesk.com/global/doc ... userguide/

it's clear 2013 and 2014 were not worth the money. in hindsight it would have been better to have stopped at 2012 and wait for 2015 to show something worth paying for.. Yearly subscriptions clearly don't work with Autodesk.

so learn a lesson and stop at 2014.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on 'ME, its now 3 times I just feel stupid now...

[mirkoj]

you still think that there will be 2015 at all? )

[EricTRocks]

you still think that there will be 2015 at all? )

You still think saying this again this year will be different than all previous times its been said.

[azurecgi]

you still think that there will be 2015 at all? )

You still think saying this again this year will be different than all previous times its been said.

Well.........if all the people that are threatening to stop their subscription payments actually do....... Autodesk will either have to 'up their game' or stop development!

With their attitude towards Softimage being quite evident since the acquisition, I'm guessing they'd go with option 2!

[EricTRocks]

I think you are over estimating the amount of people who are going to do it. The amount of people who are complaining here compared to the ones that aren't as well as the people not on this forum out weigh those that are.

[Daniel Brassard]

Spock: That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Kirk: Or the one.

>:-I

[t4d]

I think you are over estimating the amount of people who are going to do it. The amount of people who are complaining here compared to the ones that aren't as well as the people not on this forum out weigh those that are.

I think your totally right and that is what autodesk is counting on and well I'm not going to change that and if you want to pay for the yearly updates well good on you,

I don't even pay for my 7 seats my boss does, I just think are team will get more out of NOT keeping autodesk subscriptions.
and buy versions as features are added will be better value Vs $$$ wise

the fact is softimage is WAY ahead of all the other apps SO everyone could keep using it for many years to come with any issues
but paying Autodesk each year for ??? 2013 and 2014 type updates ? man no one would look down on a 2012 user maybe even congratulation would be in order..

how you spend your money is your business I never told anyone to do anything I just stated what I was doing.

[angus_davidson]

The one thing that is majorly different from previous years in the generally dismal state of the world economy and the vfx economy in specific. The people who make the financial decisions about renewing are going to be looking much closer as to whether they are getting value for money. I am not talking about the renew licences and company folds scenario. What I am talking about is people rather taking that money and spending it rather on 3rd party plugins / programs that currently give a better return on investment.

[El Burritoh]

I'm kind of in the camp of those who wonder what's going on with the whole subscription thing too. And Eric, although I definitely understand the point about getting support and access to previous versions, I'd argue that most people are really subscribing because of the included upgrades. Let's look at what you get with a subscription (and this is of course what we knowingly signed up for):

1- Support. Yeah, I'm not convinced. I've only been using Softimage for a little over 4 years now and frankly, 'support' has been Stephen Blair, Luc-Eric, and the XSI List. Not Autodesk, and even when Stephen worked at Autodesk, I wouldn't say AD was the entity providing the support. "Autodesk" has provided very little by way of meaningful support. To be fair, we haven't tried to use AD as much lately, but that's because the times we did, we got very little out of it besides 'did you try restarting Softimage?', and the List was far more productive. So when I'm told that I have to pay that much money per year for 'support', what the heck does that even mean? I don't care about semantics, I don't care about theoreticals, I care about the actual support. When AD charges me for support, what exactly are they charging me for? In my experience, the support hasn't been that meaningful, but I'd like to hear from folks who've had the opposite experience, because I know my mine is limited.

2- Access to previous versions. Okay sure, this can be necessary at times. But I'll bet it's not as common as all that. I'm not convinced there's a marketable value for most people in this, but that's just me and I know other studios have different angles on this.

3- Access to upcoming releases for a year. Is this not what attracts people in the first place? Now I totally understand that it's difficult to set a value on what constitutes a 'worth-my-while' upgrade, because that's crazy subjective. Studio X really needs this, so they love it, and Studio Y could care less, so they feel left out. I get that. But if you didn't have a subscription, you could at least exercise your decision-making prerogative and opt out of the upgrade with no additional cost to you. But under the subscription plan, you have no choice but to pay money, even if you need so little of the new version that there's no reason to upgrade. The choices you have are A) pay the subscription and get no benefit from the upgrade, or B) let the sub lapse, and face the whole 'hey if you don't pay the sub, you precipitate the demise of Softimage!' argument which we've actually heard from AD folks themselves (although this is more of a psychological obstacle). So screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.


So that's the spot I'm in currently, wondering if the subscription is really worth it (for me, of course). I feel like AD is charging for a certain product, whose value will be perceived differently depending on the customer, but only a minority of their customers are actually getting a value that they perceive to be worth the investment. I look at the Foundry on the other hand, who charge an arm and leg, and who also charge for yearly maintenance, and I see a completely different thing. Their system is very similar to AD's, but I daresay they actually provide a value through which a majority of their customers find worthwhile benefit. And it's not just because Foundry customers are "happier" people and less bitchy. There's just a different respect for the user as a human being. The Foundry's support has been top-notch in our experience, with some real honesty and accessibility. And they know their upgrades aren't going to have everything for everyone, but they ship something for everyone (of their users, that is), and it's almost always something that is actually useful, not something like frickin' viewport AO. And they fix bugs on top of that, which is just common courtesy if you ask me, because you've already sold a product with the claim that X,Y, and Z will work, and if it doesn't, it shouldn't be on the customer (yes, I'm over-simplifying. Sue me).

Anyway, now I've gone and gotten upset, and I there's no call for that. We're all, well most of us, grown-ups here. At the end of the day we love what we do and we're willing to put up a price for it, but I think there's enough evidence to make the argument that AD is not providing a sufficient value to the majority of its customers with the current sub plans. And no, I have no metrics to back that up, hence the phrase 'I think.'

Again, I hasten to add that this is all just my perception based on stuff I pick up off the evil interwebz. I would love to know what the actual state of affairs is.

[EricTRocks]

...I'd argue that most people are really subscribing because of the included upgrades...

I'd argue it's for support (we'll get to that in a minute) and for the upgrades. Upgrades which you have never or will ever have any guarantee of knowing what is being developed and will be delivered in the gold version to 100% certainty. You're paying for upgrades. What that upgrade offers you don't know for certain. You can try to influence that by joining the beta, contacting support and telling them what areas are lacking and giving a thorough run down of what isn't working that should be working in a certain way, and commenting on threads on the forums / mailing list of stuff that's bugged you forever. (<-- Holy run-on sentence batman!). You are never guaranteed a paradigm changing feature. Ever. Period. I do agree there is much improvement and new features that should be put into the software, but there is no way to guarantee it unless your company can afford to be on escalation (forget what the AD name for it is) where you have your own dedicated devs working on features for you.

...but I'd like to hear from folks who've had the opposite experience, because I know my mine is limited.

You're right Stephen has been a rock star and being that he has been so active in the community and built up that amazing Softimage support blog, there isn't much reason to go through "proper" channels. I give that credit to Stephen entirely. But remember, when you're paying for support you're paying for people like Stephen to be accessible and doing what he's doing (or did). I have called support in the past and gotten help especially with licensing. I've had a few occasions where I hit a bug and support were able to repro and it was sent to development and fixed in the next release. Not sure why you got the whole "restart Softimage" b/s. Might want to call up support and complain about that.

But I'll bet it's not as common as all that.

Most of the places that I've worked at were using the previous release in production with the newest one on special cases and for testing only to be rolled out mid-way to never on the project I was on. It's used quite a bit and it's a smart and strategic one. If a new release is riddled with bugs you can't throw it into production right away and need the older versions to fall back on.

A) pay the subscription and get no benefit from the upgrade, or B) let the sub lapse, and face the whole 'hey if you don't pay the sub, you precipitate the demise of Softimage!' argument which we've actually heard from AD folks themselves.

It's being a bit over simplified in that you pay the subscription and get no benefit. See the above where you get support and previous version access. That is worth a good chunk of your subscription fee. Everyone has the choice to be on subscription or not. If you want to have the power to toss the money wherever you want then don't be on subscription and pay the full price for each new version. Though I'm not sure this actually makes any sense business-wise, it is an option. I don't think there is a majority of users / studios that are upset about this release and will be pulling the plug on subscription, unlike a few others here do.

[Falam]

Someone is right in this thread and someone is wrong. Since we will never see Autodesk Income numbers, we will never know. Do I think Autodesk is hurting, no. There shares as of today stand at $40.6 up 22 points.

There is alot of talk about licensing from both camps and how if you don't pay, then things can go down, blah blah. One thing is over looked, the financial aspect. In August of 2012 Autodesk was tanking bad, while Amazon was having a fun ride. Autodesk had to to do something about it, subscription cancellations would have nothing to do it it. Autodesk decided the past year to change everything, which is now present. In that change focus had to be shifted, obviously the focus went from Softimage to Maya, as we know it has been for a long time, and lets not forgot 3D Studio Max which has a strong reputation.

All these changes is what we have seen today, including an Autodesk logo change, because a year ago their shares was roughly at $27, that is low for a company. Everyone could renew their subscription that doesn't mean Autodesk will hold on to it. Is there a piece of software that is a threat to Autodesk, yes Blender. That is why Autodesk has branched off with other applications.

I remember when Autodesk bought over Softimage, everyone was saying, this is great news. Autodesk will showcase Softimage what is really is. Yet most are now saying the complete opposite, you just don't know. Would I bank on Softimage as my bread and butter, well do you bank on willing $30 million within the next 10 days, or can you make it work with your present income ?