What Software to use for animation short (or intro to)

[cnever]

Btw i do think it's funny/sad that this thread started as a sensible discussion as to the best choice of software in a very specific circumstance and that over time it turns into another "the future of Softimage" thread.... Always seems to happen that.

I think it's super funny

I got a lot of insight feedback and things to ponder on with this thread. I do appreciate the involvement from everybody and glad that it gets very involved even though it gets stuck on ICE more often than not. Although this thread took a turn in a certain direction it will stay dynamic. I am still going to use this thread to try and go all the way, perhaps with feedback in detail and what has been chosen and what is the outcome etc... Or I might just disappear because it was a complete failure

That said ICE can be explained in 5 minutes (owhell if you can't beat them join them), but the problem is knowing one thing only helps so much because you need to know a lot of 5 minutes sections to really use the power of ICE - there is training of every single plugin and setup all over (C4d, Max, maya etc.) but not really for ICE as much (very detailed) or I could be wrong if so please post the links. But this is not such a pain for me actually, not the main one. It comes down to rendering or making the thing, and for example in ICE, making the particles/strands look really good or even just normal characters and so on. But I do contradict myself a lot and will now, I think the rendering is starting to get resolved but I have to say struggle to make the awesome simulation actaully look good. I started a thread https://www.si-community.com/forum/v ... =15&t=2323 but this did not really go anyware. Not that I really gave it a lot of attention but just saying.

Right but what I am gathering so far is that animation/rigging SI is the best solution if I can over simplify it like that...

[Rez007]

I was a long time user of 3DS Max a while back, and around the time of XSI 6 - 6.5, I made the jump to XSI (now Softimage of couse). There was a pretty good deal being offered by Avid at the time, and I always really want to focus on character work, so that is why I jumped in "cold turkey." I bought it straightout with not even using the 30 day trial - to this day I am still on Subscription. I like Softimage a lot, but I do miss a couple of things that Max had to offer; however, I usually find a way around and get by. Just becuase if you use Softimage, it does mean you have to use ICE and are forced to use it. To this day, I hardly touch it as I dont really need it for the things that I do, but if I ever have to use it for a small area/effect or possibly a larger project in the future, I know it is there - and failry easy to get basic things up and running quickly.

You can use Softimage for anyhting you want, not just for its ICE capabialities. And there is also a great community and group of people that you can find, especially here.

Use whatever you find is the most easy and comfortable for you and what you want to learn...if what you are looking to do is mainly character driven, then you might want to look at Softimage some more, it might work out great for your needs. Keep us posted on whatever route you decide - sounds like a cool project.

[Bullit]

working well in Softimage requires a certain kind of logic that is simply not for everyone.

Wrong, unless you'll find the same need for every other package. It is even outrageous comparing it to 3dsmax saying that one has an "aging toolset" and the other doesn't. I know both and that is simply false.
Second you don't need to know the maths of ICE to use a deformer made in ICE. There are some around.
If one wants to talk about a relatively modern 3D application it has to be Cinema4D not the mess that is 3dsMax.

And there only good things that came from Autodesk policy of selling suites, that is the only way to get Softimage cheap ina Studio.
Selling Softimage as an uber application doesn't make sense because its advantages doesn't make up for installed pipeline disruption and market.

And like i said currently most Studios past certain level use whatever does the job easier.
We will see if Autodesk inter application data sharing is serious if there will be Alembic for Softimage and 3dsMax in V2014 or if Alembic will once again exist only in Maya like today.

[Kerro Perro]

Pff i am so not getting into that silly argument with you Bullit. How about letting this thread get back on topic so it will be of use to someone.

CG forums need another "appwars" or "i hate autodesk" thread like they need a hole in the head.

[Hirazi Blue]

You unilaterally deciding what the topic of this thread is, isn't very helpful either. cnever did ask a very specific question, it's true. It was answered by me (use the software you know best), Helli (for professional purposes use Maya), luceric (use Max) - and I'm paraphrasing in all three cases, not placing any value on the respective statements - YOU yourself made this thread about how hard ("too TD") Softimage was and now you complain, that members of a Softimage oriented community (this is a "Softimage community" after all) take it from there. That's, what I would call silly...

[Kerro Perro]

I called it silly because i shared a personal view on Softimage for a specific scenario and he acted like i said "Softimage sucks, Max rules ftw!". In fact i went out of my way not to say that. And the only reason i mentioned i felt it was too TD was in response to your answer "use what you know best". My point was: i know SI best but i don't think i can get the most out of it to get a short done in a satisfactory way.

I'll say it one last time: i'm not condemning SI in any way, i just don't think it's the best for everyone in every situation. Bullit calling that "outrageous" and misinterpreting my posts is silly.

And i stand by my point about the utter pointlessness of turning every thread into the same old argument. It would be nice if we could discuss CG in an objective way and not be so tribal about this stuff. But maybe you're right, maybe si-community is not the place for that. Shame though.

I'm done with this discussion now, so there's another unilateral move for ya. (what is this the UN? )

Oh and btw: please don't go closing this thread, as i said i'm out and i would think it very unfair to cnever.

[Rez007]

While, myself do like Softimage the best as I mentioned above, one thing that would be nice to have in Softimage that you will find in 3DS Max, is a quick solution to make some character animation. While the OP is looking to do character animation, and I think Softimage has the strongest tool set for that, I do feel that either Character Studio (Biped) or CAT systems within Max are fairly nice and quick to use and understand...I was hoping that Softimage was going to go in this direction somewhat when they released their ICE IK, but that didn't seem to pan out too much. If the OP is looking for a quick solution, then maybe Max, but if he has a little more time and wants some nice features and expandability, like FaceRobot, then Softimage might be a better solution.

[Hirazi Blue]

And i stand by my point about the utter pointlessness of turning every thread into the same old argument. It would be nice if we could discuss CG in an objective way and not be so tribal about this stuff. But maybe you're right, maybe si-community is not the place for that. Shame though.

If you really think the si-community is all about “turning every thread into the same old argument” you might want to simply start looking for some forum that is more to your liking! Insulting the community as a whole is a cop out!

[Nizar]

I don't know CAT, but in softimage creating a character and animate it is very simple with Species, a very great plugin for softimage.

IMHO, the only lack in softimage is rendering side, as said in other thread, my mind cannot match very well mental ray, but it is only a problem of my poor brain

About modelling, I have tried many software (maya, modo, 3dsm, silo, blender), IMHO, softimage is best all around piece of modelling software for character, I like very much it and cannot image to modelling a character in a different software (softimage/zbrush, killer modelling combo

[Rez007]

I don't know CAT, but in softimage creating a character and animate it is very simple with Species, a very great plugin for softimage.

IMHO, the only lack in softimage is rendering side, as said in other thread, my mind cannot match very well mental ray, but it is only a problem of my poor brain

About modelling, I have tried many software (maya, modo, 3dsm, silo, blender), IMHO, softimage is best all around piece of modelling software for character, I like very much it and cannot image to modelling a character in a different software (softimage/zbrush, killer modelling combo

Yea, I forgot Species, you make a good point there - I haven't used it though. I was more-or-less sharing my thoughts based on out-of-the-box software and their capabilities, where Character Studio and CAT come with Max, no extra pruchase...

And I agree with the modeling point you made as well...I find that Softimage is a breeze to model with and is very stable in that department too. Maybe just a couple of newer tools could be added in the future, but it definitely doesn't lack anything.

[McNistor]

On a forum dedicated to Softimage, where the users presumably love working with this application, people advise to using other 3d apps.
There is something profoundly wrong with this picture.

[Nizar]

Rez007@ But Species is a very cheap plugin, and installation is very simple, also smooth integration make it a must have for a character artist.


MecNistor@ I think because here are all mature guys, without fanboy, a great community

[Hirazi Blue]

Early in this thread luceric mentions Softimage’s “aging toolset” and he’s probably right. I can’t judge this myself, as I have been using Softimage quite exclusively since XSI 4.2. But the disturbing thing to me, not so much as a fanboy, but more as an avid(!) Softimage user, is that people tend to ignore that even if you were to strip ICE from the equation, you still have a fully featured software package of the fabled “generalist” kind. You don’t ever have to touch ICE once to do full-fledged character animation in Softimage for instance. Softimage at heart is still XSI 6.5 with ICE on top (to blatantly oversimplify matters). And while XSI 6.5 can be considered quite “mature” or “aged” by now, it’s still part of the current Softimage toolset (it all still there except for the “legacy” particle system). For most tasks there is no need to look elsewhere, even if you’re scared of ICE. And if you eventually start to use ICE, which might take a while - personally it took me several versions to really get into it - an extra dimension to the software will open up to you.
;)

[Chris_TC]

frankly i don't want to "solve problems on the fly". I just want to pull on some sliders and push a bunch of buttons that do the job.

Then what do you do when the software lacks those sliders and buttons?

I work at a small studio, and we've had countless situations where we needed a very specific result that was impossible or way too cumbersome to pull off out-of-the box with 3d studio. In these cases ICE and/or Softimage-built-in tools have come to the rescue again and again*

To contrast this: how often have I had to ask our 3d studio guy for help in the 18 months since I started working there? Not once. If we had no 3d studio license we'd be fine after some minor workflow adjustments. However, if we had no Softimage license, our turnaround times would suffer badly. And we work mostly in exterior visualization!

*To give one example: we often need to model fences. 3d studio has some kind of fence tool built-in. Unfortunately, it's limited when it comes to controling the exact look of the fence. It turned out that it doesn't really do what we need it to do. So we use a custom ICE fence that's very adaptable and can be changed however we need. Also, I believe the 3d studio fence tool does not follow the ground geometry whereas our ICE fences do that automatically, regardless of how the curve is drawn.

[Chris_TC]

but not really for ICE as much (very detailed) or I could be wrong if so please post the links.

Digital tutors has over 11 hours on ICE node training. One video per node.
http://www.digitaltutors.com/11/learnin ... hp?lpid=22

[Bullit]

A free one from Byungchul Kang, better than the help since it has some picture examples.

https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?res ... fuVCurxC80