WTF??? Autodesk snubs Softimage in GDC schedule!

[Tekano]

yes those figures are surprising as to the disproportionate amounts involved, I guess some of us have been living in a sheltered Softimage bubble for the past 10+ years with our hands over our eyes and ears and this is an eye opener to actually have some of these hard facts. Of course its obvious of SI lack of market share but did not realise it was to such an extent! If these figures were known beforehand then I guess most of us would be happy with what we get rather than complain that life is not fair. wake up and smell the coffee time for sure. I for one am happy with Softimage , what it currently offers, and what is on the horizon, it seems to get better not stagnate. Like the other guy said, lets just shine with our work and proves how good it really is.

[Paulrus]

I guess the biggest problem I've had is, it's not as though Softimage is a vastly inferior product. It's sold at a fairly high price, so it's clearly not seen as a plug-in or accessory, yet it's packaged as one.

I feel as though if Autodesk were a car dealer that sold 3 different cars, they only put 2 cars out on the lot for you to look at and hide the 3rd in the back where you can't see it unless you specifically ask. Then all the brochures for the cars make the 3rd car out as though it's just some bonus floor-mats you can get when you buy the sports package.

Functionally they do the same thing. They each have strengths and weaknesses. The argument that one sells more, therefore it should be promoted more is typical dumb corporate marketing think. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maya sells the most, so we put all our $$$ into marketing it and therefore it's sales go up.

I would love to see what would happen if AD took Maya's marketing budget and put it into Softimage for 1 year, and took Soft's budget and put it into Maya for 1 year.

[JPWestmas]

happy with Softimage , what it currently offers, and what is on the horizon, it seems to get better not stagnate. Like the other guy said, lets just shine with our work and proves how good it really is.

That's truly all we can do with any software tool set. I say "tool-set" just to keep things sober.

[JPWestmas]

I guess the biggest problem I've had is, it's not as though Softimage is a vastly inferior product. It's sold at a fairly high price, so it's clearly not seen as a plug-in or accessory, yet it's packaged as one.

I feel as though if Autodesk were a car dealer that sold 3 different cars, they only put 2 cars out on the lot for you to look at and hide the 3rd in the back where you can't see it unless you specifically ask. Then all the brochures for the cars make the 3rd car out as though it's just some bonus floor-mats you can get when you buy the sports package.

Functionally they do the same thing. They each have strengths and weaknesses. The argument that one sells more, therefore it should be promoted more is typical dumb corporate marketing think. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maya sells the most, so we put all our $$$ into marketing it and therefore it's sales go up.

I would love to see what would happen if AD took Maya's marketing budget and put it into Softimage for 1 year, and took Soft's budget and put it into Maya for 1 year.

Yep, I think you're right on target with the "self fulfilling prophecy" idea. Only the users can really show that the prophecy is wrong. But tomorrow if AD is throwing stumbling blocks in front of us slowing things down, well that defeats the purpose of selling the SI goods in the first place.

[Bellsey]

yes those figures are surprising as to the disproportionate amounts involved, I guess some of us have been living in a sheltered Softimage bubble for the past 10+ years with our hands over our eyes and ears and this is an eye opener to actually have some of these hard facts. Of course its obvious of SI lack of market share but did not realise it was to such an extent! If these figures were known beforehand then I guess most of us would be happy with what we get rather than complain that life is not fair. wake up and smell the coffee time for sure. I for one am happy with Softimage , what it currently offers, and what is on the horizon, it seems to get better not stagnate. Like the other guy said, lets just shine with our work and proves how good it really is.

well precisely and I've been kinda saying this for ages, but its hard to make people understand because I can't exactly quite numbers etc. Also there also has to be a realistic of expectation of how and where Softimage was likely to fit into Autodesk's product range. After having pushing Max/Maya to people for so longer, it was unlikely that ADSK would turn around to people and say ' you know we sold you this software, actually you should be using this instead' - if I was a customer, that wouldn't be something I would perhaps like to hear.

Also not long after Softimage was acquired the economic downturn started to hit and it effected many people businesses. People and studio weren't likely to suddenly switch their packages as for some the priority was more about staying in business and getting through the tough times. Also people weren't talking about switching, the feedback from many was about collaboration and interop. They had their core 3D app - Max, Maya and Softimage, but they wanted to use features/technologies from the others and considering the folio that ADSK had it made sense to try and facilitate this more and more.

Functionally they do the same thing. They each have strengths and weaknesses. The argument that one sells more, therefore it should be promoted more is typical dumb corporate marketing think. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maya sells the most, so we put all our $$$ into marketing it and therefore it's sales go up.

I would love to see what would happen if AD took Maya's marketing budget and put it into Softimage for 1 year, and took Soft's budget and put it into Maya for 1 year.

It kinda doesn't like that in terms of marketing budgets. In the past ADSK may have been more product centric in terms on its marketing, but more recently its more about industries. Especially now that ADSK is doing alot more with things like Suites. And yes its true it may appear more bias because there's Max/Maya Suites, it then comes back to what Luceric have said, together with Chinnys previous postings to the user list.
If you look at many to the customer presentations at our shows or customer case studies in more recent years, they will nearly always try and include more than one of our products or even Suites, as this often reflects peoples workflows. I'm sure people might still say that there aren't enough customer presentations/demos involving Softimage, ok, then contact us and let us know about stuff. We have marketing people who deal with the showreels and customer relations, who are always looking for cool stuff.

[owei]

...Also there also has to be a realistic of expectation of how and where Softimage was likely to fit into Autodesk's product range. After having pushing Max/Maya to people for so longer, it was unlikely that ADSK would turn around to people and say ' you know we sold you this software, actually you should be using this instead' - if I was a customer, that wouldn't be something I would perhaps like to hear.

Hm...I don´t get the logic behind that. Wouldn´t a car manufacturer like to sell better technology to their clients instead of telling them, they are fine with the old one?? Would a computer manufacturer do so?? Anyone else in the commercial world selling technological items..??
Most likely the clients need to have a solution for getting their jobs done. If, I say IF, Softimage would be considered to do so, AD would promote it better, I guess. Right now AD considers Soft to be somekind of "emergency tire" to their "old school" packages, so stay in that car analogy.
That´s the problem in my eyes. AD tries to ride their old horses as long as possible. Putting more efforts in marketing for Softimage would be more expensive than just doing it the good old "max and maya are great" way. By the way: putting Softimage on AD´s frontpage would cost NOTHING and it would be a start, wouldn´t it ;) I´m quite sure, that won´t ever happen..

cheers,
oli

[geoath]

...Also there also has to be a realistic of expectation of how and where Softimage was likely to fit into Autodesk's product range. After having pushing Max/Maya to people for so longer, it was unlikely that ADSK would turn around to people and say ' you know we sold you this software, actually you should be using this instead' - if I was a customer, that wouldn't be something I would perhaps like to hear.

Sorry, but this makes no sense.
Before AD acquire Maya, Max was their flagship product, but they pushed Maya equally after the acquisition, with no need to turn around to people and say"you know we sold you this software, actually you should be using this instead".
Why not push/expose SI equally with Maya+Max, even with a small effort for a start as owei suggested (putting Softimage on AD´s frontpage)?
Nobody said AD should "degrade" Maya+max in favor of SI, but if SI remains a hidden gem, known mostly to it's faithful users, i can't see how it can gain the market share it deserves.

[EricTRocks]

Nobody said AD should "degrade" Maya+max in favor of SI, but if SI remains a hidden gem, known only to it's faithful users, i can't see how it can gain the market share it deserves.

How about have the studios and users of Softimage make some truly kick ass work to show off what it can do?

[EricTRocks]

Nobody said AD should "degrade" Maya+max in favor of SI, but if SI remains a hidden gem, known only to it's faithful users, i can't see how it can gain the market share it deserves.

How about have the studios and users of Softimage make some truly kick ass work to show off what it can do?

[Kzin]

marketing softimage would make no difference. what sells software? its not the features in the first place. its the finished animations everyone talking about.
maya started to become successful after big studios switched to it and movies like sw or hdr were produced with it. and because of that, new artists starts to learn maya instead of xsi because all major studios using it. max on the other hand is a long run product used by alot of small and mide sized studios, it needs no marketing at all. and i dont think these 2 products are pushed more then softimage. i think its the much more amount of shots of these two which make it looks like they are pushed more.

[geoath]

@ Eric, Kzin: truth is, i couldn't agree more with what you wrote, so i stand corrected.It's true that spectacular work created by houses such as AL etc or users, is the best advertisement for the product.

[EricTRocks]

You don't have to work at a large film studio to do amazing work. You just need the creativity and talent. I've seen some truly amazing work coming out of some of the smaller commercial houses lately. Got to keep the community strong and pushing each other. Stop the pity party and get back to work. Make Softimage stand out in spite of the less visible presence.

[Hirazi Blue]

Sorry, but I think the "finished animation" explanation paints a too simplicistic picture also. It's obviously true that the "eye-candy" produced with a certain software plays an important part in the way the product is perceived (and purchased?). But by that token, Houdini should probably be way bigger that it is, right now, as it has been used on numerous films especially for the "eye-candy" VFX. In todays mixed pipelines this kind of reasoning falls flat completely, however. If this were all there is to advertising/marketing all competitors to Maya could just pack it in. Advertising and marketing (not necessarily the same thing) shouldn't rely on the perception that already exists, good advertising and marketing aims to influence the perception that already exists. In that light, the whole "companion" slogan of some years back was bad marketing IMHO as it didn't try to change the perception of the customer (even ever so slightly), it did merely state what the customer already held to be true. And that's no way to sell something new. (And by this I don't want to start another "companion" riot, I am using it here merely as an easy example).
The one thing this whole discussion, however, makes me wonder about, is what happened in the two years since the "Good news, Goooood news!!!!" blogpost @ Planet Softimage. Is this really just the recession setting in? Or was Mark painting a too optimistic picture to begin with?

[milanvasek]

i'm putting some interesting stuff that i can find on this blog:
http://www.vfxarea.com/?category_name=projekty
not that anybody knows about it, but you can find a lot of cool softimage projects there

[SreckoM]

So, summing all what is said here, SI future is not bright.

With current AD strategy SI will never be at same range with 2 'titans'. User base = marketing.

So why would anyone than start using it? With all this in mind, for beginners it is best to start with Maya or 3dsMax. They would be able to find jobs easier. For studios it is the same, at some point lack of quality SI users will happen. For developers same story, why would anyone start developing for SI if AD strategy is so passive, it does not promise more users.
Basically using/learning SI is waste of time? That is what I see from all posts of AD representative here.

AD strategy for SI is use Maya or Max and than if some feature is missing fill gap with what SI can offer, of course until we implement that in Maya or Max ... What I see is that, deliberately or not, SI is being shutdown.

On other side, lurking on various forums, I find out that people see XSI as one of the best app out there. One that combine best of everything. Third party developers are supporting SI, there was never so much plugins and render engines developed for SI as it has been last year. Also last year, I saw tons of beautiful work from studios using SI. And I think that this should be best time to push it, marketing wise, as much as possible, because this is really important, but ...

Making gr8 work will not help that much SI while AD strategy is passive like this. Marketing is what counts and brings new user and 'force' other to switch. Having gr8 work that is going over existing user base does nothing.

[EricTRocks]

I have a feeling that many of the people complaining about the AD marketing want Softimage to be the main app in studios. Small studios sure have the opportunity to do this. Long living studios already have their pipelines set and they aren't going to swap over unless something happens that is utterly ground breaking (new uber app). The best us SI enthusiasts can hope for is for Softimage to be integrated into the existing pipelines and use geo caching to get the info from one to the other so users can use SI for whatever they want and pass it over to Maya or vice versa.

As for the Houdini argument, what high end project that needs procedural effects doesn't use it? Every Siggraph talk I've been to with destruction and mayhem has had Houdini involved.

Making amazing work and showing it has been done in Softimage is advertising. Its not AD advertising but it is none the less.