Autodesk 3december

[Jesse]

Thanks Rezoo7 for this detailed report.

I like very much ICE, but, hey, softimage is not only ICE. I like to see improvement in all area. I starting now with softimage, but after many trying, and installed all trial of every released software, I choice SI because I can doing all in this single package (and all aspects (modelling, animation, particle...) are really good).
Autodesk only talk about ICE...

I see comments like this and I must admit I find them a touch odd. The true potential of ICE is that it could encapsulate most if not all the tools we use in Softimage. As it stands now it can replace particles (and has) It can deal with deformation, and rigging. With the addition of geometry that covers pretty much all of the modeling tools. Not to mention that we could see the development of a lot of new modeling tools.

Too often we forget that tools built in ICE can be bottled up and run as standard tools. ICE push op anyone? It creates it's own operator in the stack, we never even need to open the ICE interface, it just replaces the tool. I see this as a huge potential in the future of Softimage. If ICE can replace and expand on the tools I use today all the better.

Some may be frustrated by the lack of attention non ICE related tools get but really I am excited for when none of the tools are non ICE related. I think in time Softimage will pretty much be ICE

This ICE Geo screams potential and if third party dev carry's on as it has we are in for a ride!

The one exception I see is rendering but thats more at the whim of autodesk, Mental images dev. and Ironically enough there was a raytracer built in ICE too iirc.

[Hirazi Blue]

I think in time Softimage will pretty much be ICE

While I agree with most you say, I sincerely hope the quote above will not come true. I personally feel, ICE should ideally be able to access most (if not even all) of the stuff the application has to offer, but it shouldn't replace it. If Softimage and ICE would become truly and 100% synonymous, it would have become slightly too much of a tool for (wannabe?) TD's, thus giving up on some non-ICE tools and workflows that had made the software already great before ICE entered the scene and losing/scaring away some of its (potential) user base that still wants/needs these non-ICE tools and workflows.
;)

[Jesse]

I think in time Softimage will pretty much be ICE

While I agree with most you say, I sincerely hope the quote above will not come true. I personally feel, ICE should ideally be able to access most (if not even all) of the stuff the application has to offer, but it shouldn't replace it. If Softimage and ICE would become truly and 100% synonymous, it would be become slightly too much of a tool for (wannabe?) TD's, thus giving up on some non-ICE tools and workflows that had made the software already great before ICE entered the scene and still losing/scaring away some of its (potential) user base that still want/need these non-ICE tools and workflows.
;)

See thats the thing, many still think that ICE needs to be the whole go in and put nodes together thing. But thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about replacing tools. I'm talking about it simply replacing operators that currently exist and using ICE to expand and build new tools that function the same way. Something that can already be done to some extent (ICE footprints is an example).

As I mentioned before there was the ICE Push operator that could literally be packaged up and function just like the regular push op, pick session and all. I'm thinking ICE will integrate in this direction.

I think with a bit of improvement, such as the ability to easily package a PPG for operators, you could see most if not all tools replaced with ICE and still function within the current workflow. Now perhaps with faster basic tools this may be overkill but regardless my point is that we don't need to leave the current and brilliant Softimage workflow behind.

And of course to top it all off, the TD's can still dig into the operators and tweak the ICE nodes

[Hirazi Blue]

I agree... ;)
It was just the above quote that rubbed me the wrong way!
But lets not forget, learning to understand and use ICE still is a daunting task, even if the situation has become way better over the last couple of years. The idea/myth/prospect of an ICE-only Softimage might scare some people away, even if we all know, a truly ICE-only Softimage will (hopefully) never happen.

[dwigfor]

See thats the thing, many still think that ICE needs to be the whole go in and put nodes together thing. But thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about replacing tools. I'm talking about it simply replacing operators that currently exist and using ICE to expand and build new tools that function the same way. Something that can already be done to some extent (ICE footprints is an example).

As I mentioned before there was the ICE Push operator that could literally be packaged up and function just like the regular push op, pick session and all. I'm thinking ICE will integrate in this direction.

I think with a bit of improvement, such as the ability to easily package a PPG for operators, you could see most if not all tools replaced with ICE and still function within the current workflow. Now perhaps with faster basic tools this may be overkill but regardless my point is that we don't need to leave the current and brilliant Softimage workflow behind.

And of course to top it all off, the TD's can still dig into the operators and tweak the ICE nodes

I'm in total agreement.

[Pooby]

ICE is a funny thing. I find that it is quite surprising how misunderstood it still is.
I often hear people indicate they think it's just a cool simulator thing for particles.

I would love to see absolutely everything in XSI be ice based. This would make XSI no harder to use than it is now, but would mean it was awesomely powerful and it's abilities would grow even more enormously, constantly, without having to wait for official updates.
Since ICE came along, we now have hundreds of new deformers, simulators and particle effects. If all of these were packaged individually as features, with videos, XSI would practically have to have an official release every week to encompass them all.

Even if you don't want to make your own, if you're not using any of these free compounds then you are really missing out.

[Nizar]

I have not any experience in ICe, I'm a newbie XSI user. Actually I have a bit experience in modelling and now in rigging, and I like the XSI way to manage this aspects.

I often hear people indicate they think it's just a cool simulator thing for particles.

I thought so ...

viewers from outside think ICE is the only thing that evolves in XSI, because many think it's just a cool simulator thing for particles (as said by Pooby)


P.S. sorry for my poor english...

[Hirazi Blue]

For all of us who missed the live stream,
the 3December Montreal Event can now be watched over at the Area...

Phew, really didn't think it would happen: well done, Autodesk

edit: Chinny's Softimage presentation makes up part 03 of the video...

[dwigfor]

Thanks Chinny for the demonstration!

And thanks Harazi for posting link to it.

Off Topic, your signature reminded me of the saddest concert I think I've ever seen; Kris performing Bobbie McGee at Isle Of Wight, getting booed cause it wasn't Janis' faster updated version.. Truely Sad....

[ActionArt]

It's great to hear from the SI developers and the point has been made that ICE allows for much faster development in many areas so we can see accelerated development is all kinds of tools. Very smart and I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg! Development will gain speed from here on.

Personally, I hope most for some cleanup of the modeling tools. Overall, the modeler is great but there are some glaring omissions. Basic things like being able to draw primitives...I really hate making a cube, scaling, moving, scaling, moving etc. until it's right. That's one thing LW had way better (about the only thing).

Other basic tools like cap, thicken (shell), a real extrude (that leaves the end capped), decent basic bend and other deform tools (which are currently really bad). These are really basic things that should be addressed. There are of course plugins for most of these things but really, they should be standard.

All the tools need to be a bit more consistent in how they operate. It seems many may have been plugins at one time and just added. Things like clone multiple should be interactive like everything else so you can see what's happening...In my opinion, these are all basic but important and should be cleaned up.

Overall though, I think SI is second to none and I cringe when I have to use anything else now.

Cheers to the developers all the way!!!

PS, one last thing. That keyboard shortcut editor really needs fixing! Some commands seem to be missing altogether and it's a rats nest. I wish we could just drag commands from the menus.

[Nizar]

Personally, I hope most for some cleanup of the modeling tools. Overall, the modeler is great but there are some glaring omissions. Basic things like being able to draw primitives...I really hate making a cube, scaling, moving, scaling, moving etc. until it's right. That's one thing LW had way better (about the only thing).

Don't understood what do you mean here. I don't know LW, but had a little knowledge in Modo (I know are similar), and in Modo cannot select subdivision face, in XSI yes. It look more complete to me, but, repeat, what wrong in scale and moving a primitive?

Other basic tools like cap, thicken (shell), a real extrude (that leaves the end capped), decent basic bend and other deform tools (which are currently really bad). These are really basic things that should be addressed. There are of course plugins for most of these things but really, they should be standard.

I use inset polygons tool, work well for me, what is the problem?
No critics in my words, only curiosity about your sentence.

IHMO, XSI is rally good modelling, only Silo look more fast to me and modo (but after a deep customization), but for sure XSI is much more complete.

PS, one last thing. That keyboard shortcut editor really needs fixing! Some commands seem to be missing altogether and it's a rats nest. I wish we could just drag commands from the menus.

I like very much XSI keymapping, it is smart and fast, IMO. The only thing I don't like is the damn Z key, why cannot remapping? It remain ever the dammed, useless, Zoom...
You can drag command from the above menu, and "past" on your favourite key, it work nice for me. In Silo is more simple, but for a simple error you can assign keys involuntary. In XSI is more smooth and ordered (IMO). A error is the American Keybord in keymapping setup... I'm not american... but this is not so frustrating.

[ActionArt]

Like I said, the modeler is very good but just a few points I really miss from others. In LW you could just draw your primitive (box, sphere etc.) where you wanted it, not just in the middle of the scene. A small thing but much faster to start. Seems pretty basic.

Tools like thicken are pretty common everywhere else but lacking in SI. I use a plugin for it but just to take a poly surface and add thickness to it is quite useful. Should be standard. Inset poly is not the same thing. Also, extrude should give you the option of keeping the backside face to make a solid object.

So just some small cleanup could go a long way. Overall, I VERY much like the SI modeler.

I'm very frustrated with the keyboard mapper. I've been looking for weeks for a "select polygon island" command I can map. Where is it?? It's in the menu but try to find it! It's not the only thing I can't find. The organization of commands in the keyboard mapper is just not up to SI standards at all!

PS - if you know where the "select polygon island" is - please let me know, it's driving me nuts

[Nizar]

In LW you could just draw your primitive (box, sphere etc.) where you wanted it, not just in the middle of the scene.

Tools like thicken are pretty common everywhere else but lacking in SI. I use a plugin for it but just to take a poly surface and add thickness to it is quite useful. Should be standard. Inset poly is not the same thing. Also, extrude should give you the option of keeping the backside face to make a solid object.

Ok, now understood

A small thing but much faster to start. Seems pretty basic.

agree.

PS - if you know where the "select polygon island" is - please let me know, it's driving me nuts

what is select polygon island?

[luceric]

In LW you could just draw your primitive (box, sphere etc.) where you wanted it, not just in the middle of the scene. A small thing but much faster to start. Seems pretty basic.

I considered having this adding this to XSI a few years ago. However, when it was added in Maya the reaction was quite negative from users (probably UI changed-adverse users! but - is there any other kind?) and that just went on the "let's not rock the boat unless we're sure " list or the "why are we talking about this anyway" list.

In the intervening years, I've not noticed any XSI users log a request for this. Which means it mustn't be something important to many people, although do I like the principle from a UI point of view. I guess people are just used to how things are

[Nizar]

Hi Luceric, thanks for your comment. As you said, and as said by actionart, it is not something so important.

But sometime I read user asking for real measure in SI, from many time (I starting my interest in CG 4 years ago, and 4 years ago, like now, I read request like this) and other little things (please, take a look at other topic "Archiviz"), don't worry I have not particular requests, the point, for me, is "how much SI team listen the users base vicissitudes and requirements"? In other words, you filter the user base desire or have a iron road map to follow and cannot implement any bits?

Hope my poor english don't make trouble... no critics or negativity in my words, only a bit of curiosity

[ActionArt]

I considered having this adding this to XSI a few years ago. However, when it was added in Maya the reaction was quite negative from users (probably UI changed-adverse users! but - is there any other kind?) and that just went on the "let's not rock the boat unless we're sure " list or the "why are we talking about this anyway" list.

In the intervening years, I've not noticed any XSI users log a request for this. Which means it mustn't be something important to many people, although do I like the principle from a UI point of view. I guess people are just used to how things are

That's too bad, I think if it was done right people would really like it and wonder how they did without it. It's the one thing I REALLY miss being an ex-LW user. It would also enhance SI's architectural appeal since it's much faster to lay out buildings and other similar shapes.

I have seem quite a few requests (mostly from ex-LW users) on cg-talk for this feature so I think there's some interest. I wish SI had it, just my opinion. Thanks for your post!

By the way, is there an official way for the average user to log a request? I'm a bit new so I don't know.