Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Hirazi Blue » 27 Jul 2010, 18:17

Just one more question from me (although that's not a promise :D )
This looks like a genuine reprint of an Autodesk press release, while this stems from the Virtual Press Room. Noticable difference? The first mentions Lagoa, the second doesn't. Oh joy, more confusion... :ymparty:

The question I almost forgot to add would be: what should we believe?
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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Bellsey » 27 Jul 2010, 20:17

the first one, is the official one, which you can actually see here from the the main Autodesk website:

http://news.autodesk.com/portal/site/au ... ewsLang=en

Now you'll ask why they are different, and honestly I don't know, but there's no conspiracy. It looks to me that the release from your second link is just a shorter version, i.e. less words. Sometimes they do provide different versions for people.

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Bellsey » 27 Jul 2010, 20:26

Hirazi Blue wrote:Thanks for clearing that up...
But could you please refrain from mentioning the word "conspiracy" in in almost every answer to any question I ask?
I asked a question, c'mon on...
true, but to me there seemed to be perhaps some suggestion that because they the releases were different, there was something dodgy. lol :)

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Hirazi Blue » 27 Jul 2010, 20:51

FYI - I accidentally removed the wrong post
(the one between Bellsey's last two posts),
luckily Bellsey quoted it completely...
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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by dwigfor » 28 Jul 2010, 05:19

I think the title of this thread still makes a valid point. I think a lot of user would still like to see Softimage get it's own suite. Since it already exists for Japan, it befuddles me why it isn't offered to the rest of the world.

And the thing that surprises me most of Autodesk marketing of Softimage is that it's headed by a former Softee...

But I do hope that this will be a good thing.. You notice there's no Max + Maya suite.. There's features of Softimage that could be very beneficial to the other packages. They have been working for a while on the interoperability of the softwares. Hopefully this will allow Softimage to penetrate into more pipelines, creating more jobs for Softimage users. And hopefully studios will start replacing existing pipelines with more features of Softimage once they start integrating it in; ie Blur with Rigging/Animation..


"Autodesk suggested retail pricing (SRP) for either of the Entertainment Creation Suites Premium is US$6,495. Maya and 3ds Max Entertainment Creation Suites are currently available, without Softimage, for the Autodesk suggested retail price of US$4,995.^"


Buy Maya or Max Creation Suite, get Softimage 50% off!

Thanks for the insights, Graham. And I did enjoy the 'customer profiles' at siggraph.. Since all the softwares have been out for awhile, no need to do product demonstrations.

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by redmotion » 28 Jul 2010, 05:33

Ok. I've read enough posts to be convinced now that this is huge positive for Softimage. Its only people's negative assumptions and (as a result) their ego's that are being unneccessarily bruised.

The truth is that Max and Maya studios have requested access to Softimage - NOT Maya or Max. That alone means Softimage seats could end up in almost every studio now. If the Premium suite is popular I predict a shortage of Softimage users for new SI specific jobs and massive increase in sales of Softimage training products. ;)
Buy Maya or Max Creation Suite, get Softimage 50% off!
I'm certain that this is not the case. All the software is discounted for the Suites. We can't speculate on the distribution ratios! The subscription by itself is a massive discount compared to upgrading everytime. For Softimage studios, why not think of these suites as Softimage with Max or Maya at 50% off? Spend more, pay less. This is classic price games for any large company. Supermarkets do it, electronics companies do it, software companies do it.

I just hope I will hear news about Lagoa and how it is to be included with Softimage before my deadline for purchasing subscription is up (at the end of September). Please, anyone, Please... please?!

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by electricgeisha » 28 Jul 2010, 05:43

No bruised ego here. The reason I started this thread was this is after a similar discussion last week and answered with positive light and enthusiasm from AD (in a round about way.) This week we have been answered in the same way. Great news.

No harm in asking questions, no harm in questioning answers.

As I have said many times... we will wait and see, and I am some what skeptical now... but I love to be proven wrong.

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by j3st3r » 28 Jul 2010, 07:27

If I follow the logic properly, then within few years, Softimage has enough seats around, and rule the world! :)

Seriously, actually since Soft loose a great market share in the Softimage 3d->XSI conversion, it is very hard to get in business again. It may be a good movement to bundle it. If a studio takes a chance on Softimage, it's quite obvious it'll turn to primary application. People are worried that it looks like that AD doesn't take Softimage seriously, since the acquisition it's not listed among the applications (just in the full list), nothing hype, etc.

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 28 Jul 2010, 09:53

Anything that gets the userbase growing is good.
I hope this encourages certain developers to bring their renderers out for Softimage.

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Mathaeus » 28 Jul 2010, 18:14

Well I see these new suites as a slightly positive for Softimage. Generally it seems to be easier to convince big guys, to invest in a whole suite, than explain why the hell they need to buy 'this' Softimage alone.
But whole that 'suite issue' :), well I really don't see this deserves all these negative posts.... For example, the fact that SI still doesn't have a famous viewport cube (forget me if I'm wrong) - it can be a 'sign' of... everything that someone like, absolutely positive or negative... or 'sign' of nothing.

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by dwigfor » 28 Jul 2010, 19:40

Mathaeus wrote:Generally it seems to be easier to convince big guys, to invest in a whole suite, than explain why the hell they need to buy 'this' Softimage alone.

I agree. I think it's easier to convince a Maya or Max user to try out Softimage if it's included in a premium package for their program, rather than offering it to them for a discount.. I think it's easier to sell a "Maya Creative Premium Suite", rather than "Buy Maya, get SI 50% off".

I dunno how much Lagoa will cost, but just subtracting w/SI from w/o SI is how I got my 50%, which is a good number, I think. Sure, the other packages are probably discounted differently between the packages, but then again, you gives a rip...

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by wacom » 28 Jul 2010, 20:14

We could also look at it this way: Max and Maya are a hard sell on their own for some users who are not upgrading due to what ever reason, so they have to sweeten the deal with things like SI.

Plus...once many people taste SI they almost never go back, sans for a few plugin here or there, to use max as a render slave etc.

Still, yeah, everywhere you look SI isn't marketed as strongly as the other two. Heck...there are even little ads on the area site that seem like they SHOULD have si in them too...but it's not in the ad. Like for game creation?! I don't think it means the end of the world for SI, I just see it as a missed opportunity for si. However, maybe AD is afraid that once some places start using SI, they will can 90% of their other seats of Maya and Max. Still...how could that be bad when AFAIK we pay more for our licenses right?

That said, the app mainly grows by word of mouth and actual hands on testing alone AFAIK, which means in turn that most people using SI know whey it's strong and what they want to use it for. IMHO, that makes for a much more stable and loyal user base, and one I'd rather be a part of.

They could do with marketing SI a bit better though given that half of us act like we need to be handled with white gloves, not slapped with them. I mean, why can't there be a "Softimage + Max as a FUMEFX and back burner plugin" package? Probably because it would be all to telling...

Then again, maybe the bean counters at AD are like, heck SI sells without all that expensive bling around it...but we need that bling to move the other packages, so don't worry about SI and funnel the resources to that less stable and larger user base.

In the end I just don't care so long as SI is around, advancing, and kicking as the user base IS growing, and at a sustainable pace. I just want to see what is in the next release!
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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by electricgeisha » 28 Jul 2010, 23:03

I think everyone has very valid points. It is good that the larger companies might adopt the package if thrown in to a deal like "steak knives." But on a basic marketing approach most of the time people give away the "steak knives" or stick them in the back of the cupboard. They might benefit from actually explaining what is getting thrown in a little clearer. Explain that Softimage is a powerful package that not only could be a "companion" to our heavily promoted packages but a definite ALTERNATIVE, ICE is a great feature of SI but not the only feature as we all know.

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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 29 Jul 2010, 00:30

I think this whole confusion is largely based on the fact that for most Softimage users it´s beyond comprehension why anyone would want to use any other software at all. I´m often wondering about that myself. So why, when Softimage is such a great software, isn´t it number one? In such cases, when for something there is no obvious logic explanation, many people tend to suspect conspiracy and treason, which is not rational but often understandable. Softimage useres may feel a bit "handed around" in the last years, I do ar least. But in the end, this all is not about "the best software". This is about existing pipelines, availabe freelancers and other ressources.
So what we really need right now isn´t another marketing strategy but reassurance and trust, which is not given by statements like "i´ve told you already". If we only could see more of the future plans Autodesk or the Softimage team have, we all could relax a bit.


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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by wacom » 29 Jul 2010, 00:44

Yes, it is easy to forget by some people living in this "ICE age" that si was a viable program, an alternative, in so many ways. Much of what is great and different about SI is unfortunatley taken for granted by not just SI users, but everyone who is connected to the application some how.

This new ICE centric way of thinking about it seems to have the unintended consaquence of relegating it to the specilized, Houdini-like-app bin in so many peoples minds. Maybe, just maybe, the hands on time for those buying this bundle will change that notion.
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Re: Umm I think we meant why doesn't SI have its OWN!

Post by Hirazi Blue » 29 Jul 2010, 08:33

Well "ICE age" or no "ICE age", I still do not understand, why Softimage introduced the one feature that should definitively have bridged the gap between the old and the new Softimage, ICE Kinematics, and document it so poorly, making it accessible to (in their own words) "advanced riggers and TDs" only. And that's not a problem with the feature set, but a problem with the documentation, but one earlier incarnations of (X)SI never really suffered from... The whole ICE Kinematics Workgroup isn't even mentioned in the User's Guide, for the sparse documentation of its compounds you even have to go to the WIKI. :ymapplause:

Like someone on another forum commented: "ONE video of a walking egg"...
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