Little rumor

[Superpositivo]

Helly explained that just perfectly.

@SteveBlair Thank you. I'm aware about that answer, and infact I answered soon after that in Google. But still that is not an answer.
Testing the water with Maya, Max... and most of the others is not the answer to "why Softimage is not there".

Because that answer would mean that giving a rental option costs money to AD and AD can't permit giving this option to Softimage.

That could be the only "fair" reason, but of course it would be also a bad lie.

Giving a rental option to people means giving the option to use it easily by somebody having the money to rent it 1 month, to create a product to get maybe 10 times more. Is that a bad option?.. I wouldnt' say.

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

Given the pricing of the other packages (if they are true) I'd be happy that softimage is not on the list ;)

It's not about cancelling your subscriptions if you got them. It's about having a "cheap" way to scale up your team if needed and scale it down again after the job is done without sitting on several unused licenses after that project.

Yes I know. Maya LT is a cheap way. The others go very quickly in regions where you can afford a subscription.

Edit: I mean project regions.

[Falam]

Autodesk is labeling Softimage for games, same it did for 3D Studio Max, we all know that Max is used for a wide variety of things, TV shows etc. With that being the case, since I don't foresee a Softimage LT, why don't they lower the cost of Softimage ?

As it stands Softimage emphasis is within three regions of the globe, London, Japan, France & Montreal. With the rest of the Softimage users scattered throughout the globe, what little of them there is. Compared that to Maya or especially Max, then you include Los Angeles, New York, Toronto, South America. In reality software is not region bound, those are the regions always tied to Softimage. I'd say, whether you agree or not, if Autodesk lowers the cost of Softimage, that won't hurt the revenue from Maya, but they will have an even playing field, if they want that, that is. Considering the team in Singapore is soley developing for Softimage, they have their teams for each software, the end result a nice flow of income for Autodesk, while all three camps remain happy, there is no talk about, Max is dead, Softimage is dead etc.

There is always someone from Autodesk writing on this forum, about the future of Autodesk and Softimage, not wanting to disclose any information, whether it is for their Job protection, which seems ridiculous because they could deny the information on this forum, if, that is a big if, Autodesk would approach them on it, or secondly they are withholding information for whatever reason, we will never know, and since we can't force information out of someone, you can only become skeptical. That has been my observation over time. Someone writes a message, a few posts later, someone from Autodesk is on this forum, and all I read is fluff, to leave everyone mysteriously wondering. I wait for the Autodesk employee to be as the lingo says "straight up" with the community, whether you are using Softimage 2010 or 2014, you are a revenue stream for Autodesk, or a future revenue stream, you may be a solo artist, that doesn't make you any less important then a studio of 10+.

[Dwindleflip]

The last three versions of softimage speak for themselves.

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

The last three versions of softimage speak for themselves.

Right. I'm a solo artist/one man studio, and I'm pretty sure if I had a project where I need to hire a maya guy for two weeks, I could get a full license out of it, otherwise I'd ask myself if I'm doing something wrong. Only, I don't want to. Id rather see if I can get it done with any other software at the moment. The problem with renting is, you still rent autodesk software.

[Falam]

I forgot to mention in my last post. You can literally stretch Softimage by two versions, buy Softimage 2014, upgrade or rent to 2016 if you want, or wait until 2017. Why skip versions, well as everyone has been touting over the life of Softimage, "it is that good". Except there is one hiccup, I hope Autodesk doesn't become like Adobe, whereas they force you to rent their software, options, options, options.

[luceric]

you guys probably know this, but softimage rental is there but expensive: you have to rent the Premium Suite at 425$/month to get it, or +/-22$ per work day. Autodesk has 122 individual products, including Autocad. Of those 122 products, only two products are available for rent individually at this moment, 3dsMax and Maya. A few of these 120 products some have more than 100 time more users than Softimage, so it's not like Softimage is specifically being targeted. there are 120 individual products missing from that list.

[Bellsey]

From the list by Graham:
As for the lack of Softimage rental, it's a shame Softimage didn't make the list, but I understand the reasoning for this.

Really ? You understand that decission ? How is this reasonable ?

When I wrote this, it was in reference to Maurices replies, and again here's the rest of my reply (Luc-Eric has also highlighted this):

When you look at the whole Autodesk folio, only a relative small bunch of products have rental options right now, so it's early days I think. Personally I would like to see more of our products (including Softimage) start to offer a rental option, but I don't honestly know if/when this will happen.

There is always someone from Autodesk writing on this forum, about the future of Autodesk and Softimage, not wanting to disclose any information, whether it is for their Job protection, which seems ridiculous because they could deny the information on this forum, if, that is a big if, Autodesk would approach them on it, or secondly they are withholding information for whatever reason, we will never know, and since we can't force information out of someone, you can only become skeptical. That has been my observation over time. Someone writes a message, a few posts later, someone from Autodesk is on this forum, and all I read is fluff, to leave everyone mysteriously wondering. I wait for the Autodesk employee to be as the lingo says "straight up" with the community, whether you are using Softimage 2010 or 2014, you are a revenue stream for Autodesk, or a future revenue stream, you may be a solo artist, that doesn't make you any less important then a studio of 10+.

I try and be as honest and 'straight up' as I can be, and yeah it can perhaps appear as fluff, but that's the challenge in working within the rules that I must adhere too. I (and others) have gone over this many times, so there's no point in repeating this.

But if you want a sure fire way of not being left wondering or frustrated at the lack of Autodesk being 'straight up', then don't ask direct questions about release dates, features, roadmaps, etc, and expecting an answer. Because unless it's already been made public, or it's under NDA, we can't tell you. It really is as simple as that.

[Falam]

From the list by Graham:
As for the lack of Softimage rental, it's a shame Softimage didn't make the list, but I understand the reasoning for this.

Really ? You understand that decission ? How is this reasonable ?

When I wrote this, it was in reference to Maurices replies, and again here's the rest of my reply (Luc-Eric has also highlighted this):

When you look at the whole Autodesk folio, only a relative small bunch of products have rental options right now, so it's early days I think. Personally I would like to see more of our products (including Softimage) start to offer a rental option, but I don't honestly know if/when this will happen.

There is always someone from Autodesk writing on this forum, about the future of Autodesk and Softimage, not wanting to disclose any information, whether it is for their Job protection, which seems ridiculous because they could deny the information on this forum, if, that is a big if, Autodesk would approach them on it, or secondly they are withholding information for whatever reason, we will never know, and since we can't force information out of someone, you can only become skeptical. That has been my observation over time. Someone writes a message, a few posts later, someone from Autodesk is on this forum, and all I read is fluff, to leave everyone mysteriously wondering. I wait for the Autodesk employee to be as the lingo says "straight up" with the community, whether you are using Softimage 2010 or 2014, you are a revenue stream for Autodesk, or a future revenue stream, you may be a solo artist, that doesn't make you any less important then a studio of 10+.

I try and be as honest and 'straight up' as I can be, and yeah it can perhaps appear as fluff, but that's the challenge in working within the rules that I must adhere too. I (and others) have gone over this many times, so there's no point in repeating this.

But if you want a sure fire way of not being left wondering or frustrated at the lack of Autodesk being 'straight up', then don't ask direct questions about release dates, features, roadmaps, etc, and expecting an answer. Because unless it's already been made public, or it's under NDA, we can't tell you. It really is as simple as that.

I try and be as honest and 'straight up' as I can be, and yeah it can perhaps appear as fluff, but that's the challenge in working within the rules that I must adhere too. I (and others) have gone over this many times, so there's no point in repeating this.

But if you want a sure fire way of not being left wondering or frustrated at the lack of Autodesk being 'straight up', then don't ask direct questions about release dates, features, roadmaps, etc, and expecting an answer. Because unless it's already been made public, or it's under NDA, we can't tell you. It really is as simple as that.

Who is asking direct questions ? I understand how simple it is, nothing our of the norm in that regard. When you say you can't release information or make it public, I don't know personally what, well the term they like to use NDA, you are under, I'm sure if though the grapevine someone leaked something to customers who do pay subscription, it wouldn't cause an uproar.

No one is going to loose a Job, regardless if your going to loose a Job it will happen eventually anyhow, no matter how secretive you are. That has been clearly, not demonstrated but unwrapped in the past under the Autodesk umbrella. Que sera sera !

[Bellsey]

Who is asking direct questions ? I understand how simple it is, nothing our of the norm in that regard. When you say you can't release information or make it public, I don't know personally what, well the term they like to use NDA, you are under, I'm sure if though the grapevine someone leaked something to customers who do pay subscription, it wouldn't cause an uproar.

No one is going to loose a Job, regardless if your going to loose a Job it will happen eventually anyhow, no matter how secretive you are. That has been clearly, not demonstrated but unwrapped in the past under the Autodesk umbrella. Que sera sera !

I've gone over this many times and you can search on this forum to find my numerous replies. So I won't disrupt the thread further after this post.

If we could be more open about things, then essentially we would. And we can't really just 'leak' something out to Subs guys only either.
We have to very careful, even the most seemingly simple piece of information can be misinterpreted and taken as a confirmation of something. Many companies have been stung at least once by this, and because the financial penalties can be severe, then you try and ensure it doesn't happen again.
Autodesk (and I'm sure many others) take these business compliance rules very seriously, and we undergo regular training to ensure we fully understand them and their complications.

[Letterbox]

Who is asking direct questions ? I understand how simple it is, nothing our of the norm in that regard. When you say you can't release information or make it public, I don't know personally what, well the term they like to use NDA, you are under, I'm sure if though the grapevine someone leaked something to customers who do pay subscription, it wouldn't cause an uproar.

No one is going to loose a Job, regardless if your going to loose a Job it will happen eventually anyhow, no matter how secretive you are. That has been clearly, not demonstrated but unwrapped in the past under the Autodesk umbrella. Que sera sera !

I've gone over this many times and you can search on this forum to find my numerous replies. So I won't disrupt the thread further after this post.

If we could be more open about things, then essentially we would. And we can't really just 'leak' something out to Subs guys only either.
We have to very careful, even the most seemingly simple piece of information can be misinterpreted and taken as a confirmation of something. Many companies have been stung at least once by this, and because the financial penalties can be severe, then you try and ensure it doesn't happen again.
Autodesk (and I'm sure many others) take these business compliance rules very seriously, and we undergo regular training to ensure we fully understand them and their complications.

In case you were wondering what the official Autodesk training Bellsey has to go thru to fully understand the implications. Here it is...

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

We have to very careful, even the most seemingly simple piece of information can be misinterpreted and taken as a confirmation of something. Many companies have been stung at least once by this, and because the financial penalties can be severe, then you try and ensure it doesn't happen again.
Autodesk (and I'm sure many others) take these business compliance rules very seriously, and we undergo regular training to ensure we fully understand them and their complications.

Well, it doesn't seem this strategy is very successful either.

[luceric]

it's true, Autodesk can't talk about future plans, otherwise the World Will Implode. (Just ignore the 10 pages article just published on fxguide that details future FX plans with Bifrost) Actually, let me rephrase that: people who are irrelevant in the Autodesk organization cannot make any official statements because they are, well, irrelevant in the organization. That's why some of us ping people like senior industry marketing manager Maurice Patel to the XSI mailing list to handle tough questions, instead of pointlessly replying ourselves that we can't say anything. Because maya trolls as some of us may be, we have sometimes short flashes of humility that reminds us we're irrelevant and that's the core problem, not public company accounting rules.

edit: to clarify: My point was there are people with actual information about the product direction, as opposed to third degree internal rumours. These people are program managers like Chris Vienneau, cory mogk, maurice patel. talk to them.

[Hirazi Blue]

Deleted my original reply as it might have been too harsh (and I was in a hurry).
What I meant to say, quoting the forum rules, was:
let this "not end in a personal battle".
Carry on... ;)

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

it's true, Autodesk can't talk about future plans, otherwise the World Will Implode. (Just ignore the 10 pages article just published on fxguide that details future FX plans with Bifrost) Actually, let me rephrase that: people who are irrelevant in the Autodesk organization cannot make any official statements because they are, well, irrelevant in the organization. That's why some of us ping people like senior industry marketing manager Maurice Patel to the XSI mailing list to handle tough questions, instead of pointlessly replying ourselves that we can't say anything. Because maya trolls as some of us may be, we have sometimes short flashes of humility that reminds us we're irrelevant and that's the core problem, not public company accounting rules.

I think we all really do understand, that you guys, who are still present in the community despite all the things we throw at you, can't talk.
But it is not you who aren't talking at last, but the company itself. How in the world can anyone expect someone to pay for a product three years, or even one year, in advance without even the smallest hint what he/she will get? That is just, sorry for the word, stupid.
And we know that this brings you in an awkward situation. We all (I hope I can speak for everyone) understand this. I think the discussion is not about you talking, but the direct result of AD's strategy: The less someone tells you the more rumor will grow. So AD's strategy achieves the exact opposite from what was intended, and that was and is in any similar case foreseeable. This is what AD got in this mess. This is why they are trying to aim at a new market. This is why they now try to compensate the loss of subscriptions by a rental model (despite what anyone thinks, that is the reason for the rental model). If we had a decent update very year, a stable product, and only the impression someone actually cares and at last a clear perspective for the future of what ever AD software we are using, there wouldn't be the need for any of that.

I said it once, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or cynical: I feel sorry for you. This company will just chew you up.

[MauricioPC]

I don't know if the rumor has any truth to it. What I do know is that every person I talk to about in the industry tells me that I need to learn Maya or even Max if I ever want to work with VFX or Games. I think the only person who talked good about Softimage was Paul (VFX Supervisor from DNeg) and he said the London scene of VFX 3D was Maya / Houdini / Softimage (in that order).

Anyway ... having played with all three packages on a basic level, I did enjoyed Softimage more. But how can you start putting hours and hours of learning and working if you don't even have an idea of what is to come from the software in the future. I'm not saying that Autodesk should say what features are in, but at least it should say "great things are coming in 2015" and than great things pop in the v2015. Say and not realize is also bad.

I'm not a buying software person yet (only student), but spending hours of my life to learn something that maybe won't get in the future troubles me more than spending money, because money I can work and get it back, time I can't. I myself can see a foreseeable future for Maya (because of all the marketing), maybe a little about Max but not so much about Softimage. Couldn't Softimage be presented at IBC? The Maya presentation was terrible and the Max was great. Louis Marcoux knows his stuff. It would be nice to see things about Softimage. Even the youtube channel of Softimage is dead. And the Max has always some nice tutorials about FX, Motion Graphics, Architecture, Rigging, etc.

As a all around application, I can see Softimage in the same level of Max in the meaning you can do all kinds of work with it (from FX to animation, to motion graphics, etc). The two are more swiss-knifes than Maya, but in comparison Softimage has 1/10 of Max tutorials and marketing. That makes it hard to choose when you are starting out.

Anyway ... I feel sorry that AD employees get bashed here as it's not their fault.