Cinema 4d r15?

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ojo3D
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by ojo3D » 04 Apr 2013, 20:34

Bellsey wrote:Flame absolutely has its place, but it's more suited in a certain environment. Smoke is alot more attractive now that it's on the Mac and its new price.

Smoke is crazy! Very good. Played in a friends Macbook. But I wish it was on the PC to, just like Composite. I don't feel like spending 4x the value just to get a Mac and then use. I would prefere even Osx86.

Anyway ... I like where Maxon is heading in the motion graphics field.

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dwigfor
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by dwigfor » 04 Apr 2013, 20:50

Just read some news about new version of After Effects, and thought I'd share it here with C4D...

http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/04/adob ... -workflow/

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ojo3D
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by ojo3D » 04 Apr 2013, 20:55

Yes ... they've put together a site to explain.

http://landingpage.maxon.net/?lang=en#


This integration is very nice to have. Even though is aimed at motion graphics, I can see lots of creative companies using it for VFX work too.

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Maximus
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Maximus » 05 Apr 2013, 02:45

Its quite amusing to see almost everyone working and developing something new, exciting, usefull..everyone except AD that always doesnt miss to disappoint its userbase with poor releases of the whole Media and Entertainment suite. I wonder how much time it has to pass to have a decent release from AD.

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ojo3D
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by ojo3D » 05 Apr 2013, 03:40

Maximus wrote:Its quite amusing to see almost everyone working and developing something new, exciting, usefull..everyone except AD that always doesnt miss to disappoint its userbase with poor releases of the whole Media and Entertainment suite. I wonder how much time it has to pass to have a decent release from AD.
How does Maxon compare in size with the M&E of Autodesk? Rather smaller company? All business books say that very large company becomes slow in innovation because of bureaucracy. Don't know if that's the case. Just wondering ...

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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Bullit » 05 Apr 2013, 06:37

Most of big companies are bureaucracies first. The only thing that keeps them in line are shareholders and competition.
Also we say they don't innovate because competition does better, even Blender does more in 12 months.

I would like to know more about what is going on at Autodesk. What makes the constant shuffling of people in last years with special relevance for the 2012. Without some stability and finding people with correct vision they can't go very far.

Sometimes i think if not best for Media & Entertainment to spin off from Autodesk. I know it is difficult that to happen with 3dsMax, also neither it implies necessarily things will be better. I don't know if the problems came from Autodesk or are more M&E issues.

Lord Futzi Voldemort
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 05 Apr 2013, 15:40

Bellsey wrote:
Bullit wrote: What about that Fxtree?
I'd much rather see what can be done with greater interop between Maya/Soft and Flame, or more importantly, Smoke.
I'd rather see the day, when AD stops neglecting the fact, that many small studios and freelancers don't use AD software for compositing, but for example nuke, that has great interoperability through alembic, sadly AD rather enhances FBX because it´s an AD format, instead implementing abc. Again, one of the real improvements for softimage has to be bought from third parties...
Last edited by Lord Futzi Voldemort on 05 Apr 2013, 16:06, edited 1 time in total.
I'm now part of an endangered species...

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gustavoeb
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by gustavoeb » 05 Apr 2013, 16:06

Looking at the videos on this AE related things, it looks a lot like they want to match Element 3d (https://www.videocopilot.net/products/element/). Cineware+C4D light looks, to me, a lot like Element3d + its stand alone sidekick...
The fact that it will come bundled with AE + compatibility with full blown C4D makes it a no brainer. Sounds like there is no way for anybody to compete with such a powerful combo for standard looking Motion Graphics for the time being.
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ojo3D
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by ojo3D » 05 Apr 2013, 16:28

In the case of finishing apps, I do think Smoke at the current price tag is more attractive then Nuke, witch is almost 2x the price tag. And you got editing capabilities in it.

If you put Smoke + C4D = 7k, just NukeX is 8k. And you have to buy a 3D, witch can be Modo (1.5k) or something more expensive. Even if you put together Smoke + C4D + AfterFX = 8k, as the NukeX price. Hardly NukeX as a better choice in my view.

And now ... you can even take out C4D and put Max/Softimage and it becomes cheaper. Very interesting.


I've seen some crazy compositing in NukeX, but for small studios an AfterFX + Smoke pipeline would be better. If I had a studio, that's the route I would take.

EDIT: One thing I get from this Maxon deal is that they are going to focus a lot in Motion Graphics, but it also gives me the impression that as a out of the box tool, ready for all kinds of work, 3ds Max still have the edge as you can do motion graphics with it, it has nice dynamics, simulations and effects, some nice modeling and rendering and a more robust animation in case you want to create character animation (and good interop with MotionBuilder). I always thought Maxon would like to take this position from 3ds Max, but I guess it's not the case.

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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Bullit » 06 Apr 2013, 14:42

also gives me the impression that as a out of the box tool, ready for all kinds of work, 3ds Max still have the edge as you can do motion graphics with it, it has nice dynamics, simulations and effects, some nice modeling and rendering
I use often 3dsmax and have to disagree. 3ds Max doesn't give any edge except in some architectural viz.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Mathaeus » 06 Apr 2013, 18:09

ojo3D wrote: EDIT: One thing I get from this Maxon deal is that they are going to focus a lot in Motion Graphics, but it also gives me the impression that as a out of the box tool, ready for all kinds of work, 3ds Max still have the edge as you can do motion graphics with it, it has nice dynamics, simulations and effects,
Well, it seems it still doesn't have even basic functions of Cinema, for example, ability for text indexing. That is, in Cinema, each letter can behave as individual particle (so letter "i" is one element, not two) - all that non-destructively, you can enter another text bellow. In short, in Cinema, I'm able to create the entire setup for all accompanying mograph of some daily-weekly video stuff... and forget it. Later, After Effects people are able to do all small changes if needed.
Such division of labor is impossible in any AD app, not only because of "what it can do" - Cinema is sooo much more stable than Max, more protective against user errors. And yes, Max doesn't have a "real" version for Macintosh, I think it's still BootCamp story (something that "true" Mac user just don't want). Even it does, at least that I know, Cinema is far more popular, an considered as more easy to use in area around AfterEffects, than Max.

edit - in short, if AD really have plans to compete against Cinema in After Effects field, they need to work much, much, much more, instead of cosmetic changes and believing in own advertising. They need to go with affordable price too.

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ojo3D
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by ojo3D » 06 Apr 2013, 19:42

I stand corrected! =]


Been playing with the text tool of Cinema and it's quite cool. And been reading a thread in CGSociety witch has 20 pages (omg). But it's being nice as I have discovered some tips in it.

Probably I'll focus more on Cinema for now, as I'm learning it faster. But I do like this forum like no other.


CHeers.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Mathaeus » 06 Apr 2013, 19:55

ojo3D wrote:I stand corrected! =]


Been playing with the text tool of Cinema and it's quite cool. And been reading a thread in CGSociety witch has 20 pages (omg). But it's being nice as I have discovered some tips in it.

Probably I'll focus more on Cinema for now, as I'm learning it faster. But I do like this forum like no other.


CHeers.
well you can focus on Softimage ICE Imho, ICE is most attractive of these node-based, procedural systems. Once you are familiar with one, no big deal to switch to another.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Hirazi Blue » 06 Apr 2013, 20:44

Question: does anyone of you have any experience with the sculpting capabilities of Cinema 4D? I'm thinking of buying the base package for its "inner Bodypaint" to possibly replace 3D Coat. Voxel sculpting never was my thing. But I want to know, if the C4D sculpting works well. I know dedicated software would be better, but I simply can't afford many applications.
:-s
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by Bullit » 06 Apr 2013, 21:41

That's one areas that Cinema users criticizes more since Bodypaint have not being updated for a long time. See videos to check if it does what you want..

I agree with Mathaeus advice, ICE is essential in my opinion because you can do stuff with freedom to change that no other system can replicate except maybe Houdini.

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ojo3D
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Re: Cinema 4d r15?

Post by ojo3D » 06 Apr 2013, 22:51

Hirazi Blue wrote:Question: does anyone of you have any experience with the sculpting capabilities of Cinema 4D? I'm thinking of buying the base package for its "inner Bodypaint" to possibly replace 3D Coat. Voxel sculpting never was my thing. But I want to know, if the C4D sculpting works well. I know dedicated software would be better, but I simply can't afford many applications.
:-s

Hirazi, doesn't Mudbox or ZBrush cheaper then BodyPaint and the Sculpting tool? Or you just don't like Mudbox and ZBrush? I for one have tried several times ZBrush, but it seems I can't quite figure how to work in it. BP is $ 995.00. ZBrush is almost $ 300.00 cheaper and Mudbox is $ 200.00 less the BP. I ask this because I've been hearing good things about texturing and modeling in Mudbox.

Like Bullit said, lot's of complains about it in C4D forums because of the lack of updates. But the same users recognize that it's still a good 3D painting app.
Mathaeus wrote:well you can focus on Softimage ICE Imho, ICE is most attractive of these node-based, procedural systems. Once you are familiar with one, no big deal to switch to another.
Well, I've been playing with almost all 3D softwares. I'm trying to decide witch one to focus. My main goal is to do freelance work here in Brazil. All kinds of work, but mainly motion graphics because the market is big. But I also want to tap into Archviz and Product Visualization and Advertising. Since I'll be freelancing, more jobs/markets means more money. But if you ask what my main goal is, I would say that in the future, if my freelance becomes a company, I would like to create short films, like "Morris Lessmore" or work with VFX.

I was able to secure student licenses of AD products and Cinema 4D. Luxology and Newtek were harder and I discarded that. Logically, I should study Maya or 3ds Max because that's what the companies here uses it and they tap well in what I envision (short film and VFX). But I would like to make the right choice thinking in the future.

EDIT: The only other thing that is kind of bugging me. My system specs are not the world's best, but it's a AMD FX Octa-Core 3.1Ghz - 16Gigs do Corsair Dominator - 2x Geforce GTX 550 TI (4 Gigs of ram on SLI) and the viewport is very slow. If I play with MoGraph in the 600k quads, I get some lagging. That doesn't happen on either AD apps (Max, Maya, SI).