Who is thinking of stopping there Autodesk subscriptions

[EricTRocks]

Second, if I told a client the reason the animation piece I sold them was 1/2 as long as expected and not the quality they expected, was that I replaced all my animators with new animators, I doubt they would they give me the least bit of sympathy, as a matter of fact, they would probably be insulted I gave them an excuse at all. And they would most likely take their business elsewhere next time, unless of course it was my mom buying the animation.

Well, your example isn't valid to what I said. If you have a new employee starting at your company you shouldn't expect them to be up to speed within day or even a week. You'll have your bases covered to compensate for this as a smart business person obviously. Extrapolate that out to an entirely new team developing and maintaining a code base that has got to be massive. They still deliver a product with work done on it and that still works for your day to day needs. Saying it is 1/2 of what you expected makes it obvious your expectations are entirely too lofty.

[jamination]

Second, if I told a client the reason the animation piece I sold them was 1/2 as long as expected and not the quality they expected, was that I replaced all my animators with new animators, I doubt they would they give me the least bit of sympathy, as a matter of fact, they would probably be insulted I gave them an excuse at all. And they would most likely take their business elsewhere next time, unless of course it was my mom buying the animation.

Well, your example isn't valid to what I said. If you have a new employee starting at your company you shouldn't expect them to be up to speed within day or even a week. You'll have your bases covered to compensate for this as a smart business person obviously. Extrapolate that out to an entirely new team developing and maintaining a code base that has got to be massive. They still deliver a product with work done on it and that still works for your day to day needs. Saying it is 1/2 of what you expected makes it obvious your expectations are entirely too lofty.

come on man, give me a break, go to the version 7, please, this is utter bs, to say this is up that par.

my example is valid 100 percent, it is not my concern at all who works on the damn code, or who worked on it before.

and it isn't just my lofty expectations not being met. look around, must be a lot of "entitled" people around.

[EricTRocks]

come on man, give me a break, go to the version 7, please, this is utter bs, to say this is up that par.

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that you expect an ICE level new feature EVERY release? If so, your expectations are lofty. What other software is doing this btw? I haven't seen anything from Maya, Max, or Houdini like this in the last 2-3 years. Also I think you're remembering v7 a bit wrong cause it was riddled with bugs after release because of ICE.

look around, must be a lot of "entitled" people around.

Again not sure what you're saying here either. I see a bunch of people on the forums complaining they want new features each release. I also see a lot of people working around me that don't mind a release that can crush a crap ton of bugs and make things more stable and fix some small stuff that can get us through our days easier.

[SreckoM]

No, but as a human being you should probably give them some slack. When having a new employee at your company you'd give them some slack no? Also have you ever developed software?

Tell me that you are joking...
AD representative, or as a matter a fact every employee at AD would die laughing if I asked them for discount because I have new ppl at my company and we are still not at our full potential ...

[McNistor]

Better question, why do they have new people? Were the old ones bad? No, they were expensive because they knew their shit and some of them got kicked out or left on their own while others that remained got assigned to the "next-gen app".

[Ahmidou]

This is a copy/past from the new team introduction on the mailling list:

We're all based in Singapore btw (so the comments on durians were apt) where the cost of labour isn't that much different from Montreal and certainly much higher (3x?) than in China. And there're more people in the team than there were in Montreal two years ago. Moreover, folks like JF, Francis, David, Manny, Graham, etc. are still around (the first 3 are in fact still developing enhancements and bug fixes for customers). Hence Autodesk is still investing in the Softimage since guess what? Soft still makes money for the company.

It's true that the team doesn't know the code as well as Luc-Eric and team but that's not to say that we're newbies to software development, 3D graphics, simulations, rendering, etc. either. Sure, we don't have the 10-15 year histories with Soft that the "old" team had, but we're happy to say that they're still around (even many from the acquisition who eventually moved to other Autodesk teams) and still helping out when there's a need. But that should go down as we become more familiar with the code.

So here goes:

Hsiao Ming Chia - Core, Ref Models. From NVIDIA, worked on games middleware and runtime engines for 8 yrs.
Yury Khmel - Core, ICE, FaceRobot. 12+ years, last 5 as an architect in games development.
John Tensuan - Rendering, Data Management. Last in Ubisoft doing rendering and engine systems.
Ho Chung Nguyen - ICE, Simulation. Wrote core libraries for math, physics simulation, rendering while at LucasArts.
Joany Yang - UI, SDK. Mainly engaged in UI projects using COM, MFC, C++, etc while at another team at Autodesk.

[t4d]

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that you expect an ICE level new feature EVERY release? If so, your expectations are lofty. What other software is doing this btw? I haven't seen anything from Maya, Max, or Houdini like this in the last 2-3 years. Also I think you're remembering v7 a bit wrong cause it was riddled with bugs after release because of ICE.

Take out Max and maya because there have the same problem softimage does
Here what houdini got over the last 3 updates

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=55
Version 12
The performance enhancements in Houdini 12 are already having an impact on how Houdini artists work. During beta testing, many studios opted to put the new version into production. The significantly faster simulation times were particularly popular, especially when using the GPU to run fire and smoke simulations using OpenCL.

Built on a powerful new geometry engine, Houdini 12 includes targeted optimizations to dynamics and rendering and a reworked OpenGL 3 viewport. Houdini 12 also includes Bullet solver integration, Pyro FX 2, faster, more accurate FLIP fluids, production-ready cloth, an Alembic exporter and much more.

Houdini’s Mantra renderer, recently recognized with a Scientific and Technical Achievement award from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences, now brings physically-based rendering to volumes such as smoke and fire. Mantra also includes a 300 times speed improvement when instancing to points.

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=55
Version 11
“The new FLIP fluid solver is going to make a big difference for artists in production,” says Kim Davidson, President and CEO, Side Effects Software. “Not only is it up to 70 times faster, it draws on the power of our renowned particle tools to offer an unprecedented level of directability.”

The new dynamic fracturing tools are also designed to automatically create high-quality fracturing effects using a Voronoi-based algorithm. Artists can establish nicely shaped interior cracks and use volume “maps” to control the results.

The new version also brings important enhancements to Houdini’s lighting and shading workflows. Artists can make lighting decisions interactively in the viewport with new OpenGL effects such as GPU-assisted Volumes, unlimited lights and support for diffuse, specular, opacity, environment, bump and normal maps.

Houdini’s Mantra renderer is being used more and more in production and with Houdini 11 it becomes more accessible to artists. Houdini 11 ships with a robust general-purpose material which includes features such as sub-surface scattering and per-light exports. Houdini 11 includes new lights to make it easier to set up and render shots.

Houdini 11.1 will incorporate the most recent third party libraries necessary for Alembic to run properly including Boost, which extends the functionality of C++. Houdini 11.1 will also include extended support for OpenEXR and Sony Imagework’s Field3D, a format for working with 3D voxel data.


http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=55
Houdini 10 includes many more features such as:

Motion FX which gives artist-friendly access to the procedural power of Houdini’s channel operators (CHOPS).
Improvements to Network Usability including new align tools, and the ability to quickly connect and disconnect nodes using fewer clicks.
Physically Based Rendering (PBR) is now fully supported in Houdini’s multi-threaded shading language.
Deep Camera Maps which make it possible to render volumes and objects into separate passes then combine them perfectly.
The Rigid Body Solver now supports ODE for faster simulations.
Houdini’s cloth solver can be used to simulate the Crumpling and Tearing of dentable and elastic surfaces.
The wire solver now supports Parting and is much faster when simulating longer wires.
New Knife and Edge Loop modeling tools.
And much more.



jamination is right if i can not treat are clients like that in my business why can autodesk treat us like this ?

2010 excuse was autodesk has just taken over ( we got a nice ice Update delivered from avid's work )
2011 excuse was autodesk was doing something special for the future ( view cube YEAH )
2012 excuse was autodesk was redeploying staff
2013 excuse was autodesk was we moving the SI team onto maya
2014 looks to be was autodesk's new team are just get used to there new jobs


a business that provides a service ( software ) can not uses that management moved and changing the staff that provide that service as a excuse to raise the price and give lower value.

no other business can do that unless that business think that can get away with it.

if you got your pizza 2 hours late and the guy just said '' I'm new I got lost'' would you be happy to pay full price ?
you should if you will to accept what autodesk is doing.

[Hirazi Blue]

I understand your frustration and it's highly personal indeed, but I really do think you paint a picture that's slightly too grim. Softimage 2010, 2011, 2011SAP and 2012 were quite decent releases (although at the time it didn't always feel that way). Personally I really started to doubt the rate of development after Softimage 2012 (when they "ran out of" ICE). And IMHO it doesn't matter much if ICE followed a "roadmap" from the Avid days. The important thing is when most elements of ICE were actually developed, which obviously for the most part was under Autodesk.
All of that's extremely IMHO, I'm afraid.

And comparing any software development to the rate Side Effects is "going at it", would make anyone look bad. And even Houdini would appear to still have some definite weaknesses on the "generalist" side of things.

[luceric]

2010 excuse was autodesk has just taken over ( we got a nice ice Update delivered from avid's work )
2011 excuse was autodesk was doing something special for the future ( view cube YEAH )
2012 excuse was autodesk was redeploying staff
2013 excuse was autodesk was we moving the SI team onto maya
2014 looks to be was autodesk's new team are just get used to there new jobs

Dude, please switch to Houdini now because Softimage doesn't need users you who lie about the product to put it down. We added Lagoa in 2011.5, ICE Modeling (six months later!), ICE Kinematics, face robot lipsync, and tons of other stuff in these 6 releases my team broke their backs to ship in the span of four years.

I don't understand how the performance work in Softimage 2010 is to you "an excuse" but then it's a great feature if it's performance enhancement in Houdini 12! If you think Softimage 2011 only had the view cube, instead of quoting SideFX press release look at the 2011 feature list, and then look at the 2011.5 feature list You're not going to get a copy of Houdini features in Softimage, Softimage is NOT a copy of Houdini and does NOT serve the same market. We didn't add things like flip fluid or "better CHOPs", we added things like Lagoa, Syflex on ICE, lipsync, crowd, unfolding, realtime shader updates, tool sdk and worked on the SDK in general, all the work for arnold and the other renderers, etc. Why post press release for SideFX but then nothing but lies about Softimage. Need houdini? GO USE IT it's always been there for the last 20 years, no one is putting a gun to your head to use a product you've obviously been hating these last 5 years. Don't need Houdini feature? Well then this whole argument is moot, it's just press release fights.

[t4d]

And comparing any software development to the rate Side Effects is "going at it", would make anyone look bad. And even Houdini would appear to still have some definite weaknesses on the "generalist" side of things.

every software has weakness NO platform is prefect I myself prefer to model in modo but pull everything into softimage after that,.artist preference in workflow has nothing to do with getting value in software updates.

Softimage is not prefect That's why it needs updates.



The rate C4D, Blender and modo and even Lightwave ALL have developed over the last 4 or 5 years have advanced alot more and given users alot more VALUE then what autodesk has given it's users.

Here's the List of C4D updates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_4D

Here's a list of Blender updates http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2 ... on/History

Here's a list of Lightwave updates http://lightwiki.com/wiki/LightWave_History

Here's a list of modo updates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modo_(software)

I think the fact Autodesk control 80% of the 3D industry gives raise to the logic they can make more profit by not having to spend as much on develop, because they do not need to give it's users as much and get away with it.

I feel this attitude from autodesk this is becoming more and more obvious with each release.

[t4d]

Dude, please switch to Houdini now because Softimage doesn't need users you who lie about the product to put it down. We added Lagoa in 2011.5, ICE Modeling (six months later!), ICE Kinematics, face robot lipsync, and tons of other stuff in these 6 releases my team broke their backs to ship in the span of four years.

what % of my subscription pays for you to break your back ?
why break your back ? I'm not asking you to do that ?
shouldn't you have a bigger team so you don't have to break you back ?

I know you worked hard I LOVE the work you've ALL done on softimage but this is a value issue NOT ''are the programmers doing there job'' issue in any way. NO one here has any negative feels toward to Programmers or any of the real people working on Softimage, it's the company your working for that the issues are pointed at here.

YES i will take that slap luceric 2011 had value in that update I was not trying to Lie but.. and the price was lower back then, Facerobot was added from Avid days and the ICE improvement were very cool

2012 had Lagoa was a SUPER third party plugin that did add great Value to the update again the ICE update was cool. BUT price raise on subscriptions

but then there's 2013 http://area.autodesk.com/softimage2013
Sorry so far the High-Quality Viewport is useless in my workflow and nothing compared to other packages OR the plugins for maya etc and Crowds really ? and marketing wise if take out Crowd and High-Quality Viewport you barely have a worthwhile Service pack.

I never want softimage to be Houdini just like i do not want it to be modo or C4D I like softimage the way it is
but if i get nothing each year that i can not use, why pay for it ? why not just wait 3 or 4 years and buy the next version when it gives me something worth paying for ? the subscriptions idea is NOT working.

specially when all you have to look at are what's happened in other packages and what is advancing Vs $$ users have to paid each year and see Autodesk are not giving as much Value.

the fact is WE are stopping Autodesk subscriptions and would like to know if anyone else is thinking the same,
it would be good if autodesk knew this attitude is out here IF they notice or care ? ( there are a big company, me only buying every 4 or 5 year may not effect them enough to care )

[Bullit]

I don't think the critic up to V2012 is fair, there was a nice development phase under Autodesk even if Lagoa seemed a bit of a hack.
The critic against V2013 is fair. It wasn't only thin, it was wrong.

[Daniel Brassard]

I will wait and test the new version on it's own merit.

It cost me nothing right now, my subscription is good until Aug. Plenty of time to see what the new team has done, return of investment so to speak. I'll make my decision later, on sound testing and evaluation, no hurry, no rush judgement, open minded kind of way. If it deserved a renewed subscription, then all good.

I was never found of the marketing speeches. I have used Lightwave, Max, Maya, Softimage, C4D, Houdini and other for far too long to be wooed by the Marketing shiny newfangle. They all have their strength and weaknesses.

Stay positive ... Peace!

[Dwindleflip]

I usually lurk here, but honestly. I think softimage is a dead end now. It had great potential once upon a time, but I dont see a future in it anymore. So many features are just ancient and they have not improved in several versions, which is odd because those same features are pretty useless as is.

[bottleofram]

I usually lurk here, but honestly. I think softimage is a dead end now. It had great potential once upon a time, but I dont see a future in it anymore. So many features are just ancient and they have not improved in several versions, which is odd because those same features are pretty useless as is.

Word of advice, keep your first posts clean of strong statements and declarations. No one will take you seriously. ;)

Cheers

[Bullit]

Yeah i really can't understand why will someone make the first post just to write just that, maybe it is better to go here and check all the work done: https://www.si-community.com/forum/v ... 9&start=50