What Software to use for animation short (or intro to)

[luceric]

Well helli said this:

No new artits are getting trained on softimage, only on maya.

The video was done by students of Softimage in Centre NAD.

CentreNAD teaches Softimage because they're in Montreal and the now defunct Softimage Co. was the local software company. They have a long history and business relationship with the former company. They were even been in same the building in the 90s. With the Softimage product no longer being made in Canada, it'll be interesting to see if this affects the local market.

[Kerro Perro]

Yeah the main problem with decisions like this is that you only really know what's right when youve taken the plunge, started your project and hit a brick wall ;)

Hey you got a blog or something? Id be curious to see how someone else progresses on this. Apart from the software side the project management side is also where you can sink or swim. Might be nice to compare notes on that.

[cnever]

Hey you got a blog or something? Id be curious to see how someone else progresses on this. Apart from the software side the project management side is also where you can sink or swim. Might be nice to compare notes on that.

I don't have a blog unfortunately yet, had to launch my website beginning of this year but clients work got in the way (now their site is launching) just typical.

But I am going to try and get something simple up just for now but can't promise anything. But yeah would be great to compare notes (not sure what you mean with notes) but will still be great. Worse case scenario is we can use this platform. The more eye and input the better it is I think at the end of the day.

Are you doing a college short or just for fun type thing?

[Kerro Perro]

Ah "notes" is maybe the wrong term, im just curious how someone else goes about drawing a storyboard, planning out shots, blocking animation - that sort of thing.
The facial stuff you're planning sounds very interesting for instance.

I guess mine is for fun, i have a day job but im hoping/dreaming being an artist someday. But for now im just doing an animation to go with a band's concept album. No rush no pressure - but i still want to get it done as fast and easiest as possible just to not kill the creative flow. The link to my wip thread is in my sig but i really heed to update it, for one thing im not planning on doing an animatic in flash anymore ;)

[Falam]

Softimage makes you CG smarter Learn everything piece at a time, don't rush it.
Start with the easier stuff, progress to the harder stuff in that case, ICE or scripting or both.

[Mathaeus]

I feel like I am just going deeper into the ocean of not knowing. Back to the point - will I waste my time furthering my training in SI, will I be able to quickly conform to another package when grasping certain things in SI.

Actually there's a lot of features in other 3d apps, inspired by Softimage 3d, or Softimage XSI. You're at origin. Just as small example, the same default bone orientation in Max and SI, do not originates from Max, most likely... There are a few 3d apps having an equivalent of SI Shrink Wrap operator, with exactly same name. So on... So, our Kerro Perro won't go so far away, whatever he think If you want to learn a bit more about technical side of 3d, no one 3d app has so smooth border between artistic and technical side (whatever both means...).

However, I'm not sure does it help to your movie. There's good chance you'll find more attractive toys in Softimage. To explain this better, while ago, my own excuse for XSI Foundation was practicing the animation, one my fellow had the same idea with pmG Messiah.
Few years later, he had his movie, I had about ten-twenty rigs . He had no other choice with pmG Messiah. But who care about these first reasons

[Bullit]

@Bullit, that was super funny and was that really done in 3d, is there perphaps a breakdown of that shot, cause that was done pretty well. I thought you meant the baby crying is the way you feel cause people are saying things about SI.

It have found this:

[angus_davidson]

Luckily the 3D Community at large is often really helpful.

On the subject of rendering you can probably stick to a renderer that doesn't depend on the host package. Vray / Arnold / 3Delight. That way any time you put into learning it isnt wasted as far as your project is concerned.

Good luck and keep us updated. Inquiring minds would like to know ;)

[Hirazi Blue]

But it's just to TD for me, i sort of kidded myself i would get into ICE "someday" but frankly i just want sit down with my software and be an artist, not have to solve 15 puzzles to get something as simple as a good bend deformer to work right.

That’s Softimage’s main PR problem right there, I’m afraid: Softimage is perceived as being “just ICE” and ICE is being perceived as being too hard to learn and/or too technical for artists. And although there have been some attempts in the past to try to remedy this situation, it’s still a problem that deserves more attention IMHO.
;)

[cnever]

I don't think necessarily that ICE/SI is really that intense. In many cases probably more intuitive way of applying maths then other applications. But If there could be like a master class to get you understanding all the modules that would help a @#% load. I am talking about training like when you started with maths. This is how the multiply works, very simple then you move one. a Real in depth look at things. But perhaps there is and I am just dumb. Also a lot of great artists out there that know a lot but aren't really good at explaining but such is life.

[csaez]

ICE is really easy to use, the concepts can be explained in 5 minutes.

It's a lot more about the logic behind the effect you're trying to achieve rather than how to use the software, develop that kind of analytical thinking is what makes it 'hard' for most people IMHO.

[Hirazi Blue]

Personally I don't necessarily disagree, but I was specifically talking about the perception... No amount of "ICE is really easy to use" remarks will in the end help those who perceive it to be too hard to change their views. In the past there were several heated discussions to this effect on the XSIBase IIRC. Person A says its too hard, person B says no it isn't. Lather, rinse and repeat. This isn't necessarily about the reality of the situation, but about the way some people think about ICE IMHO.

[Helli]

If there's a point to posting that vid it's lost on me...

But just to repeat something i posted earlier: i dont think the Softimage has no future, i just think it's future is more on the TD/Houdini like. Or better put: that's the direction AD is taking it in. So for a lot of people on here i think it's a very good tool. I just dont think it's the best for a one man short, that's all.

And that's the problem. There isn't anything you can do in Softimage you can't do in Houdini. For pure vector calculations or geometry deformation ICE is faster then what you can do in Houdini but thats it. On the other hand you have acess to smoke, fire, fluid, shatter and much more in Houdini.
So if this is the only field were SI will be used in the future I don't see any future at all.
But, sorry I am drifting off topic.

[angus_davidson]

As it was also coming up before the London SIC there is a definite issue about how Softimage is represented. There has firstly been far too little active PR work comparatively speaking, and what there has been has been to much focused on standalone features like ICE and crowd effects etc. I think as Hirazi Blue said the perception is very much that Soft is heavily going down the route of getting ICE to do everything. Frankly that is very incorrect. Its a very good all around package and needs to be sold / marketed as such.

I know from teaching both Maya and Softimage that with very few exceptions all of them has progressed much further and had a much higher standard in Softimage then they ever did with Maya. Our course is incredibly intense and Softimage just allows them to get on and do things without having to be a TD first.

Bellsy has admitted on here that they are aware of perception this and will be working actively to correct it.(in the SIC thread)

We always knew it was going to be a tough crowd and how important these types of meetings are.
We actually do many of these meetings where the product teams get in front of customers, but unfortunately in terms of Softimage, we haven't been as consistent compared to what we do with other products.
Hopefully this meeting will be the start of addressing that going forwards.

Personally I think its the best all round program. Autodesk just needs to remind people of that ;)

[Daniel Brassard]

Personally I think its the best all round program. Autodesk just needs to remind people of that

Unfortunately, that is not the current marketing plan of AD, they are more into selling Suites (Max or Maya) and no Softimage Suite. their target is the larger studios, not the freelancers or hobbyist.

This has been debated to death and little has change since AD acquisition.

Learning Maya is always good to know but be aware that no large studio rely on one tool, its always a mixed pipeline. The chance to find a job is greater with Maya but also the competition to those jobs. Currently, they are more looking for seasoned Maya Artists and TDs, the entry jobs is flooded.

For Freelancers and small studios on tight budget, Softimage is a more rounded piece of software and fit better than Maya (who need an army of TD to script and tame the beast to various tasks). I wish we had a Softimage suite to complement the offering because that would make sense to us.

Often you will see in description of recent works: Modeled and textured in Max/Maya, animated in Softimage, special effect in Houdini, light and rendered in Max/Maya using Renderman/VRay/Arnold you name it. What does it tell you - Softimage is still relevant for animation, why?

It break less, it is more stable and let's not forget it's non-linear workflow.

So it's up to us to pressure AD to take care of Softimage, not just the package but also its marketing. If we do nothing then we will be the next VHS/CD/Betamax.

We also, have to be part of the selling process by showing what we can do with Softimage and be teachers to potential new students. This community is a start but we also have to increase our visibility in magazine such as 3D Artist or 3D World by submitting new art and articles, and increase our activity in forums like CGTalk, CG Society and The Area. Let's spread those wings shall we, we can cast a pretty big shadow if we so desire?

----------------

I hate to be a kicker,
I always long for peace,
But the wheel that does the squeaking,
Is the one that gets the grease.

[Kerro Perro]

Well i hope my posts were not causing too much offense and i don't want get into some heated argument here but i think the people that say you don't need TD skills to get around in Softimage are wrong. Fact is you do. I've hit my head against the wall with simple things that didn't work right out of the box so many times and the eternal reply is: "but you can do that easily in ICE". (this is just one many such threads) But there's the rub: lets's say for arguments sake that i'm an idiot ;) That my math skills are non-existent and frankly i don't want to "solve problems on the fly". I just want to pull on some sliders and push a bunch of buttons that do the job. Well i'm sorry but that's not Softimage.

ICE is really easy to use, the concepts can be explained in 5 minutes.

It's a lot more about the logic behind the effect you're trying to achieve rather than how to use the software, develop that kind of analytical thinking is what makes it 'hard' for most people IMHO.

This is what i mean: working well in Softimage requires a certain kind of logic that is simply not for everyone. But so what? The "one app to rule them all" is a myth - we all know that. I think clever guys like Anto, cseaz, Daniel, IAMvfx, origin etc etc really shine in this arena and yes they can cast a big shadow if they want. It's just a particular kind of shadow. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

Now this is of course all AD's fault if you consider this a bad thing (so don't shoot the messenger) but it goes much deeper than simple marketing. Fact is that they are not updating/improving core tools that would keep Softimage in the "generalist" camp. This has of course been discussed ad infinitum...
I'm not so sure it is a bad thing, as again - and for the last time ;) - i think Softimage as it is right now is a great playground for certain kinds of people and i can see a lot of potential there.

Anyhoo i didn't mean to cause offense, just my opinion.

Btw i do think it's funny/sad that this thread started as a sensible discussion as to the best choice of software in a very specific circumstance and that over time it turns into another "the future of Softimage" thread.... Always seems to happen that.