No 2013 Advantage Pack

[luceric]

The way development works, you have a feature development time and a stabilization time. So if you have a release every 12 month, you may have up to 9 month of dev time that whole year. (If you're actually ready to start when the last one ships - which is never the case.) But if you have two releases in a year, you have up to 6 month dev time total that whole year because you're starting and stopping, and you're launching a beta that's going to generate hundreds of new requests.

At the end of a shorter release cycle, all sort of stuff happens including critical requests from sales and client to jam more in, or stuff that's broken because there wasn't enough time to stabilize. Of course the development of the main release and point release is overlappped, in different development branches, and not all dev work on the point release, but it doesn't add up back to 9 month for the people not working on the point release, because they are needed to help or put out fires on the point release. It ends up monopolizing the same people, who could instead focus, uninterrupted, on a less trivial multi-month project for next release.

[Pooby]

It makes no difference whether it comes in the SAP, every 6 or so months , or if it in the main release once every 14 months or whatever, as long as the updates are actually worthwhile and show a deep commitment to developing Softimage in the way it deserves.
However, considering the relatively slow pace of development since AD, and the leaving of the original team to work on Maya. Its hardly surprising that people are wary of any ambiguous Softimage-related news that comes indirectly from AD.

The best thing is to not give out ambiguous news.
ARE you saying plain and simple that by dropping the SAP, we are to expect a much better product development? If so, it might be worth mentioning that at the start, because otherwise, all some of us will feel is. Now AD cant even be arsed to give us the advantage pack.

[pluMmet]

It makes no difference whether it comes in the SAP, every 6 or so months , or if it in the main release once every 14 months or whatever, as long as the updates are actually worthwhile and show a deep commitment to developing Softimage in the way it deserves.
However, considering the relatively slow pace of development since AD, and the leaving of the original team to work on Maya. Its hardly surprising that people are wary of any ambiguous Softimage-related news that comes indirectly from AD.

The best thing is to not give out ambiguous news.
ARE you saying plain and simple that by dropping the SAP, we are to expect a much better product development? If so, it might be worth mentioning that at the start, because otherwise, all some of us will feel is. Now AD cant even be arsed to give us the advantage pack.

Keep your head down...Don't disagree with those with more power, Move up the ladder.

I've always hated how many people without admitting it follow those rules.

Pooby, you have a lot of my respect as most people that advance in a field start to keep mum as they progress up the chain. You have very fine works but still are grounded and adamant.

You might not realize that we have had similar expression in other threads and that I have seen that you never cease to keep up the good fight.

Very impressive!

For the record I am not going to be on subscription with AD any longer. I would rather pay more when I decide that the upgrade is justified at this point even if I have to buy a new full license. I see this as another bad progression by AD. I don't want to be in a position where I am feed a new release that binds me contractually to a cloud only license. Lets face it, that is where they want to go.

[Tekano]

So no SUBSCRIPTION ADVANTAGE anymore. what is the advantage of subscription now then exactly??

[ActionArt]

you know, the release cycles at Avid was 14-18 months... Now you're saying Autodesk is evil for not pushing for 6 month release updates.. I guess we must have been really evil at Avid! you would never have gotten ICE on this type of three month dev cycles, with the dev contantly jumping on the latest emergency, which is exactly what happens when you're shipping point releases.

I'm sure this is absolutely true. This would be absolutely fine if AD wasn't charging us a subscription fee with no chance to wait and decide if we'd like to purchase the upgrade based on it's features. Funny how customers, when they're charged significant fees, would like to receive something.

I think it's the subscription system that infuriates most users, not the release cycle dates.

I'd be fine with even 2 year cycles if we could just upgrade at a reasonable price at the time of release.

Part of the subscription selling features was continuous updates like the SAP which it seems we no longer have. It's a bit like if I bought a magazine subscription that was 12 issues a year and they come along and say, now that you bought it, it will only be 6 issues a year, like it or lump it.

I guess all we can do is hope the yearly one is significantly more substantial.

[luceric]

The best thing is to not give out ambiguous news.
ARE you saying plain and simple that by dropping the SAP, we are to expect a much better product development? If so, it might be worth mentioning that at the start, because otherwise, all some of us will feel is. Now AD cant even be arsed to give us the advantage pack.

the fact that it takes away from the focus of the main release is specifically the reason why the SAP is dropped. The team that aren't huge end up cutting on the main release to make them, even if they don't plan to at the start.

btw I've seen someone joke about the 'egg spline' feature added to Max... Are you using the "Annotation Object" in 2012 SAP? Doubtful, yet someone spent a few weeks on that. The new APIs in SDK people will not use at all until next major release as well. I'm proud of the add smooth edge modeling tool I've pushed to add in 2012 SAP, however. The Thickness ICE compound came with performance problems that were only solved in 2013. Also you can't change file compatibility in SAP, so you have limited ability to fix any problem you run into.

that doesn't stop anything down the line from buying a plug-in and make that installer downloadable from the subscription center. You don't need a new build and a new beta for that... But doing a mid year release with mini-feature like we used to, I think that's the source of problems we have been having and I think contribute the perception of slow pace of development, because it looks like we're small stuff that rarely satisfy everyone just 'cuz it's august.

[Bellsey]

So no SUBSCRIPTION ADVANTAGE anymore. what is the advantage of subscription now then exactly??

Same as it's always been:

Upgrades, its still the cheapest way to stay up to date; Flexible licensing, if you wanted to use software at home; and Tech Support, which in Softs case is Gold, or Advanced as I thinks its now called.

[ChrB]

As far as I recall there has only ever been 2 SAP releases, 2011 and 2012, and to be fairly honest I won't miss not having updates more than once a year. I am still on 2012 SAP and I doubt I would switch to 2013 SAP, except if there were some tools specificly needed for a job. I usually upgrade when I have little work to do, and can spend some time getting familiar with the most recent bugs that are introduced in each release. Apart from the hype a SAP relese gives and the feel of second christmas, I can easily wait.

[Hirazi Blue]

While its true the Advantage Pack won't necessarily be missed all that much (the 2012 SAP for instance wasn't a highlight in Softimage release history IMHO), this year especially it could have been a nice and gentle introduction to the actual capabilities and ideas of the new team.
;)

[bottleofram]

While its true the Advantage Pack won't necessarily be missed all that much (the 2012 SAP for instance wasn't a highlight in Softimage release history IMHO), this year especially it could have been a nice and gentle introduction to the actual capabilities and ideas of the new team.
;)

Timing is certainly strange. On the other hand, this will be a good opportunity to see just what Autodesk is doing with Softimage. If 2014 isn't a major release, to me that would clearly indicate the software has gone into low-cost maintenance mode and the acquisition was in fact an acqui-hire that just took a bit longer than usual to sort itself out. This realization would be unfortunate but it would have to be dealt with. One can only have so much patience with a corporation.

[ChrB]

Yes, it would probably have been an option for the new team to introduce some of their new stuff to us, but the pitafalls are numerous:

1) People would judge the release as a normal release and complain: The new team is failing!
2) The new team needs a little more time than an experienced team to come up with new stuff: The new team is failing!
3) People would expect SAP's now every year, failing in delivering these (as this is not really AD policy): The new team is failing!

Not saying that AD haven't made some quite unpleasant decisions, seen from a Softimage long term user and subscription customer point of view, but it seems to be the fate of the software I remember when Microsoft took over SI and the rumours were flying around that all the developers got microsoft stock options, leaving them to spend endless hours wondering whether to buy a Ferrari or a space shuttle... Development was on a hold and everybody was whining. Yet today we still use SI, it has survived several take overs by evil coorperations and still doing OK.

[Pooby]

I cant see how it could be construed as anything BUT an acqui-hire.
The only consolation for me is the fact Softimage remains the king of Rigging and deformations and perfect for the creature work I do. Its so far ahead of the pack for my particular work that I dont actually NEED it to be further developed.
I just find it a damn shame that what I consider to be a piece of genius software design, is so undeservedly overlooked.

IN response to above.. the big difference this time is that there is now no incentive to compete with the other apps. Plus all the Softimage team that didnt leave in disgust when AD bought XSI, have now been assigned to XSI's biggest rival.

[Tekano]

I remember when Microsoft took over SI and the rumours were flying around that all the developers got microsoft stock options, leaving them to spend endless hours wondering whether to buy a Ferrari or a space shuttle... Development was on a hold and everybody was whining. Yet today we still use SI, it has survived several take overs by evil coorperations and still doing OK.

yes but the problem here is compounded in that Autodesk management thinks it knows all the answers when it comes to M&E strategies and where Softimage should sit in the scheme of things. wheras Microsoft and Avid had no existing highend 3D content creation apps and pretty much respected the Softimage 'way' and left them alone. well left them alone is not exactly true but you get the point, Microsoft & Avid bought SI to get a foothold into the 3D business and promote NT / DS (as well as some important IP) Autodesk only bought Softimage so it can no longer be a thorn in its Maya developers big toe.

[pluMmet]

Didn't they just call every sub to say renew your sub now because the price is going up...?

BTW And now that the price is going up (and we got that early money) don't expect too much lol

[ChrB]

@Pooby: I think one should be extremely naive not to see this as a aqui-hire (If I understand correctly what this means). - and in response to your edited post (Maybe we should stop replying in edits ): Yes, that is not good news. Currently working with a small Maya based studio, I have a lot of work picking up their jaws from the floor when I do simple stuff in ICE, maneouver around the interface and set up render passes. Damn shame, as SI really is a good package. But I somehow feel that the need to go all doomsday, due to the lack of a SAP (Which never existed before 2011) is maybe a bit of running down the river to pick up the water and put it on the mill once again.

@Tekano: At the point of aquisition, SI could hardly be a thorn in anybodies toes. Maya dominance on the market was, and is, overwhelming - excluding Max from the comparison. Why AD bought SI is not clear to me, but I presume patents and the experience from creating ICE was the main interest - as well as getting a broader audience for the suites.

And finally: No, the future for SI does not look bright - thank god the package is already so robust that I can make my money with prior releases - but there are alternatives (Houdini, Cinema 4D). Obviously it is easier for me to be relaxed about these issues as I did not build a studio around a software package, and I do understand the amount of money and time invested into doing so, but if we want a software not ruled by economical interests, maybe open source solutions are a better choice.

[ace63]

At least Mark is still optimistic

"Other than that things are really good. The team in Singapore are already doing some amazing work on the next release. I think you’ll all be pleasantly surprised by what the team is going to deliver in 2014 so stay tuned and hope to see you at the show!!"

From his Area blog