WTF??? Autodesk snubs Softimage in GDC schedule!

[Tekano]

Luceric, for me, its 'All' of the things that I can only do in Softimage. I shudder to think of giving up over 15 years of aquired problem solving knowledge and starting from scratch with Maya or Max. oof! no way hose , I'll be joining 1/2y in houdini land before then if I can still have the luxury of choice.

and also, talk about the glass half full! Practical maybe, but your not inspiring confidence right now, the bit about the 1990s windows API was about Softimage..? I thought it had the most upto date one out of the 3? and catch up to Max and Maya take a few years.... sounds like Sumatra \ xsi all over again - forgive my ignorance on these matters but I dont understand this!

As a freelancer in Soho London, where, because of luck? there are quite a number of Softimage using studios still around, I'm in an envious position of being able to turn down work, and there seems to be a big shortage of skilled Softimage users right now. More so than its ever been - again imo, I see this as a positive and a growing phenomenon within in our 'small' industry and so far, touch wood, I dont have to subscribe to the mentality that we 'lost' in the 1990's, as in Soho commercials market as far as Im aware, Like in Japan, 3dSMAX had/has not made much 'traction' either. Film yes, its mostly Maya, but thats why I havnt got that many IMDB credits.... yet

[Chris_TC]

Best case, I think, Softimage will retain about the same position it has now.

You think not losing its current market share is the best case scenario? Are you for real right now? This makes absolutely no sense.

[bottleofram]

There was once a browser that held 80% of market share. Titan company that owns it was also arrogant enough to think that's not gonna change. Same company had a stock value 7 times bigger than a certain fruity little company in those 1990s. I guess having "a goal" instead of "a dream" made the fruity company's stocks now 14 times more valuable than those of the titan company, but hey! Apples and oranges, right?

...

Sadly, right.

[luceric]

Softimage is doing well, and the are lots of XSI everywhere around the world. Canada (ex: Ubisoft and others), UK (The Mills), France, Germany and Australia (Animal Logic) are all non-Tokyo hot spots where you can find lots of Softimage user. And in Tokyo there are thousands of seats.

But doing well doesn't mean that you're making progress in terms of percentage in the market, because the CG market continues to grow at rapid pace. Maya sells more new seat per year than the total size of the Softimage user base. You'd have to beat that just to keep up with Maya, and you'd have to beat Max too. Point is, Max and Max are very, very big.

[Bellsey]

Here 3ds max license costs 6600$, subscription 900$.
Softimage 5500$ and subscription 1500$.
For some unknown reason you can buy only from reseller.
As for license forbidding using software outside the country you bought it in, it's better to check you local law because it seems those frecking corporations think they can put anything they want in the license agreement.

Autodesk is a channel sales business. It doesn't sell software direct (except for things like e-store), instead using a network or distributors and resellers. This model has been used for years, although it will be interesting to see how Autodesk and similar companies may adapt or change with things in prevailing aspects such as the cloud.

[Chris_TC]

Maya sells more new seat per year than the total size of the Softimage user base.

Do you have hard numbers on that or is this a guess?

[Maximus]

Maya sells more new seat per year than the total size of the Softimage user base.

Do you have hard numbers on that or is this a guess?

Doubtfully its a guess coming from AD

[Bellsey]

Maya sells more new seat per year than the total size of the Softimage user base.

Do you have hard numbers on that or is this a guess?

We don't mention specific numbers in terms of market share/size and numbers of seats etc. In fact I believe we're actually allowed to.

[Chris_TC]

We don't mention specific numbers in terms of market share/size and numbers of seats etc. In fact I believe we're actually allowed to.

What he said sounded like a completely unrealistic guess, that's why I asked whether he has actual numbers (no need to mention them).

Wikipedia keeps very accurate statistics on page views. The following is a chart for page views of the articles on "Autodesk Maya" and "Autodesk Softimage" between January 2010 and February 2012.
Something like Lagoa causes a temporary jump in interest, adding noise to the chart. However, the overall trend line is very clear.


http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/Autodesk_Softimage
http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/Autodesk_Maya

[luceric]

What I wrote is not a guess. Many of us were impressed by the scale and success of Autodesk when we joined! In our minds, we thought the CG market was much smaller than it actually is.

I don't think it's healthy to nurture a distorted view of Autodesk' success, because then nothing make sense and of course people will continue to get frustrated and angry! "Why isn't Softimage on the front page of Autodesk, why aren't there any books about it, why are there few schools teaching it, why are there so few plug-ins, why is it being sold in a suite - what's this "companion" thing? why hasn't my friend ever heard about Softimage?", etc.

It's not that there is a plot to hide Softimage, it's just reflective of the small market. It was that way in the Avid days, and before that. There is nothing wrong with being a small market; Houdini, Modo, Lightwave, even discreet products, have small markets, people are happy, life goes on. Just as long as you get what you need, you're golden. Autodesk remains committed to developing Softimage, and the product is profitable. It's safe to continue to use it and add more seats. If anything the support is better in small user base -- just look at all the interaction Stephen does and the quality of the XSI mailing list.

[myara]

Here 3ds max license costs 6600$, subscription 900$.
Softimage 5500$ and subscription 1500$.
For some unknown reason you can buy only from reseller.
As for license forbidding using software outside the country you bought it in, it's better to check you local law because it seems those frecking corporations think they can put anything they want in the license agreement.

This may be a little offtopic but I'm a little curious, in Autodesk USA store Softimage electronic version is $2999. I was a little pissed off because we pay more than twice $7100 that and the subscription is about $2700 and Maya is $6600. Well software in Japan has been always outrageously expensive, not only Autodesk.

Since it is so cheap, I was thinking to make my next purchase in Autodesk USA Online Store. But why nobody is doing that? then I googled a little and found an Autodesk webpage where it said that it was illegal to use a software outside of the country where you purchased it. Maybe I would be able to do the purchase because some IP restriction I don't know, but in the case I could, would be my purchase "in Japan"? or paying $3000 would be as illegal as using a torrent downloaded version. I'll wait until Softimage 2013 is released to give it a try.

Anyway, like I said, Softimage is big in Japan game industry, but still it's no rival to Maya. At work, Maya users get surprised at how convenient and easy is to work in Softimage, but non of them had ever tried to change their main tool. And no one will. Some of them had used a little Softimage in some projects but still, they go back to Maya. They prefer to do the same thing in Maya even if it takes them more time because changing their workflow and learn a new software may be a little difficult. I don't get it but it seems to be the average user logic.

We know that Softimage is not at the same level than Maya and Max (in sales) in the past 10 or more years, but it will never be if Autodesk doesn't even try to sell it. Software development is't cheap so I hope they don't decide to stop Softimage development because of their low sells, at least not until they make Maya a little more usable.

[bottleofram]

What myara said there is unsurprising. So even in Japan, where soft is very strong, industry has a tool it got used to, build its pipelines on top of and thats it, work goes on. Obviously, you shouldn't expect this to change. In my mind though, a product's success is highly dependent on its market growth. I shouldn't say "in my mind", its just a basic principle of economics.

As luceric pointed out, mayas growth is abnormal in comparison to xsi's. Why is this? Same company. Same development cycles. Features edge on maya side, but the quality suffers - opposite is true for xsi. I'm asking "why" because i genuinely dont know. History? Schools? Better API? Maybe. In my opinion, it's good marketing. I say this because i am very familiar with maya and, although i cant claim i know what goes on in bigger studios, for the regular human beings, it just couldn't be less fit. Yet, it grows rapidly... But sideline it for a year - present it as a max plugin for a while - and see what happens.

Its a hypothetical situation. Obviously, no sane person would think of doing that.

[ActionArt]

There is nothing wrong with being a small market; Houdini, Modo, Lightwave, even discreet products, have small markets, people are happy, life goes on. Just as long as you get what you need, you're golden. Autodesk remains committed to developing Softimage, and the product is profitable. It's safe to continue to use it and add more seats. If anything the support is better in small user base -- just look at all the interaction Stephen does and the quality of the XSI mailing list.

Absolutely! In many ways for the users it's better. Good to hear SI is doing well and progress continues, that's all that matters.

Having a huge market share doesn't seem to make the product any better or progress any faster, just look at Max and Maya

I'd say, stop worrying, fire it up and produce something that gets everyone's attention.

[ActionArt]

mayas growth is abnormal in comparison to xsi's. Why is this? Same company. Same development cycles.

If you look back, the best software almost never has the most market share. There are so many other factors. Marketing, features needed at the time, high profile projects, economics etc. Look at AutoCAD for example. Worst CAD interface ever in the 1980's. But it could do certain things that companies needed and it had good backing so look at it now. Same with DOS, Windows, Word etc. etc. None of those were the best or even close, they just got traction at the right time and inertia is a powerful thing.

For 3D software, it's a huge deal for a major studio to change, so it's usually easier not to. Simple.

[bottleofram]

For 3D software, it's a huge deal for a major studio to change, so it's usually easier not to. Simple.

To be clear, i do not suggest for one moment that major studios should be muscled into a change of any sort.

Does it sound like that growth is major studios, though?

[Chris_TC]

What I wrote is not a guess.

But then even your best case scenario is impossible. If Maya alone sells more NEW seats every year than the entire Softimage user base (and I assume Max would be similar?), Softimage would have to triple its user base every year just to maintain market share.
That is seriously the bleakest thing I've ever heard about the market situation.