WTF??? Autodesk snubs Softimage in GDC schedule!

[Bellsey]

sorry Bellsey but that sounds exactly like the kind of drivel that we keep on hearing from Autodesk, almost every single thing you said is a repeat of the obtuse marketing speak from the corporate website, its extremely ambiguous and from my perspective tries to disguise the inevitable, which is all we need to know right now. Cold hard facts or don't bother. Offerings play a part?!!? what, like at some temple we sacrifice ourselves to the greater go(o)d? that is to become the ultimate Autodesk platform. (Maya) Viewcube makes a big difference? to whom exactly? am sure its not your intention, but from a calm resignation this has just made me more incensed and angry!

Well I'm sorry, but it wasn't drivel, its my take and as honest as I can be within the boundaries I have to work in. Frankly I'm already treading a fine line
You want cold hard facts? Well I simply can't tell you, not on a public forum like this. Strategies, roadmaps, features, release dates, etc - we just can't tell you, but I have said this many times, so frankly, this shouldn't really come as any surprise.

I don't want to be a w****r about this. You know where I am, and if you didn't see Chinny at the end of last year then pop in and I will try and explain more. Might have to be under NDA though.

[Tekano]

Bellsey your right, this is not the place to be having this conversion. If you have more info regarding this then I would gladly sign NDA's to hear about them. I very much doubt that its anything good to hear from my perspective though. Yes I did see Chinny demo the next release here in London and I signed NDA's then. The Suites thing was a bitter pill that I just had to swallow, afterall what choice do I have? what wasnt explained clearly was this superior 'platform' strategy or the sheer lob-sided numbers involved, now that the numbers have become clearer the pill is not so difficult. I was indignant when I was first told of the suites and I still am now, just not as much, thanks to some enlightenment by Luceric. This recent knowledge of the Japanese market having a separate Softimage suite and the doubling of maintenance really irked me into saying something and joining in on this thread. its a timeout for me, my intention is not to insult you personally, please accept my apologies.

[ActionArt]

Personally, I don't quite understand all the ranting about suites and AD and marketing. Considering the actual numbers I think it's a good strategy AD has and we're lucky SI is still going strong and getting stronger, something I don't think it would have done with Avid.

Results and word of mouth goes a long way to changing numbers of seats. Ongoing rants like this only scare off potential customers if they happen to see it, and for no good reason.

SI is under full development and being shipped to Max and Maya customers who probably wouldn't even look at it otherwise. What more do you want?

[Hirazi Blue]

Ongoing rants like this only scare off potential customers if they happen to see it, and for no good reason.

I respectfully disagree with the implication of that statement. Threads full of rants seldomly "explode" out of "thin air", there most often is a good reason for them. And most rants DO show commitment to the product. People who are able to easily dismiss the antics of, say, Autodesk do not necessarily care more for the product than people who vocally express their disbelief. If no one were to find any reason to rant about the product anymore, IMHO its makers should start to get really worried...
;)

[myara]

This marketing thing may not be a very big deal because we already knew SI was small, but people, including me, are kinda sensitive with these kind of things because we don't want SI to die.

We are pretty happy how SI is now and how it is being developed. I don't know how much money is Autodesk investing in SI but I think SI had grown a lot in the past years. A little too much focus on ICE maybe but it is getting much better. And that's why we are complaining, because SI is awesome.

But I'll resume you a little what we were complaining.

SI is not in the front page, nor the main list of products in any Autodesk website. Bellsey kinda clarified that. Autodesk is not pushing SI there, and they wont, ever because they have other software that make more money.

Autodesk announced their participation in GDC 2012 in Area, where you can see some featured stories, masterclasses, sessions, etc. using Maya, Max, Motion Builder and other Gameware but not a single word about SI. I haven't watch yet all of the material there but I haven't seen anything about SI. But it seems that SI was there as a Maya plugin, I mean, part of Maya Suit.

In Siggraph 2011 also Autodesk didn't show something more than ICE and FaceRobot. Maya and Max had at least 7~10 times more material. You can also find this in Area, 1 or 2 links about ICE or FaceRobot and that's it.

Softimage doesn't have a basic creation suit. Only in Japan. And strangely enough, only in Japan SI is the most expensive standalone of the 3, about $500 more than Maya or Max, and the basic suits have all the same price, but that's another story. They can't make an effor to to create a SI bundle.

And that in my opinion, is not the best marketing strategy I can think of.

Now we have here some hints and / or speculations that Softimage may be already death sentenced.

I'm resigned, sad, somewhat understand the points exposed here by Bellsey and the others, and I understand they can't talk specific details about their work, so I won't complain anymore because I'm already convinced it is useless, but are you serious? You really don't understand why we were complaining?

[SreckoM]

I rant mostly because I think that current strategy is so short term. And that will lead to point where SI will not be able to do anything to get from the darkness. My opinion.
I know that there is no good strategy, considering above mentioned numbers and current position of SI in Autodesk portfolio, but I really believe that best strategy would be to attack people that enter CG.

Considering the actual numbers I think it's a good strategy AD has and we're lucky SI is still going strong and getting stronger, something I don't think it would have done with Avid.

I do not agree with this, I think that SI would benefit more, if it is under Avid or anyone else as a matter affect. AD just will not attack Maya weak points to present SI as good replacement for it. That is the problem. Seats decided what will be primary app for AD.

Look at this Master class video from David Lightbown, and let me know what is better workflow http://area.autodesk.com/masterclasses/ ... s1_q1_2012

Under Autodesk, line is: See how they work great - Seats does not change
Under Anyone else, line is: See how SI kicks Maya a.. (at this department) - Well someone might consider to start with SI

We can not change much about that obviously, but we can rant here, do not take that from us

[ActionArt]

Now we have here some hints and / or speculations that Softimage may be already death sentenced.

I think this is REALLY jumping to conclusions that are very unfounded. If the end was near why would AD invest another nickle in SI which they clearly have. If enough people keep saying it's going to die, it's going to die...that may be a self fulfilling prophecy by making potential customers shy away. That is BAD marketing! And I'm afraid bad marketing spreads much faster than good marketing.

All 3 will die someday, Max, Maya, whatever. Time moves on, things progress.

Rather than taking offense to not having front and center marketing, perhaps consider that SI is probably selling more seats right now than it has in the past.

If SI generates some interest, sells some seats and stays profitable, it will be on the front page It and it's users have to earn that.

I'm not a AD fan but negative talk like this is shooting SI in the foot IMO just as it's starting to have a chance.

[Firebird]

Sorry to jump in here and I have to say I didn't follow the full thread very closely but I have to free my head now because its getting silly.

For the start about these selling numbers,installed seats whatever.
One interesting fact would be how much these numbers changed when you introduced the Maya/max Creation suites and didn´t offer a Softimage Creation suite which I still don't quite understand.

We also took the "maya/SOFTIMAGE/MUDBOX/MOTIONBUILDER" suite because of the very very good priced offer back then.
But I hated the fact that we are now listed as MAYA Creation Suite Costumers (which is now written in our contract) or whatever the real name is now.

And then 2 weeks later I get a phone call from a german Autodesk guy asking if we wouldn't need 3d Max also to add to our Maya toolset, and guess what, he was speechless as I told him that we are a Softimage based house since XSI 5 and only took it to get Mudbox and Motionbuilder in our pipeline and the redheat stepchild is a just nice bonus but nothing more. (and I didn't even used it yet) nice to have but no need atm for using it.

But for me that means that everyone that took the Suite offer is now seen as either a max or maya user.

And then you base future decisions on these numbers? must be a joke.

And instead of trying to answer every angry post about Autodesk is the evil where you then say..calm down dont worry I can´t tell you anything, but the future looks bright blablabla.

1st. Put SI on your gooddamn Products page next to max and maya where it belongs. And no the reasons and answers to this why its not done are no excuse. Its should be possible to achieve this in 2-3? years now. If not just buy a Webdesign company they will fix it.

2nd offer a Softimage entertainment creation suite. Would be no extra work except another page on your website, same price same thing and you can either pick max or maya as a companion. And as the shipping is a USB stick only anyway you don't even need a extra box. So a win win situation and I don't get it why its not done.

And voila I´m sure the amount of angry posts about Autodesk would be less then 80 % from what you have now. And the trust in AD would grow again.
It could be so easy and you would not need to worry about writing a post which sounds nice but actually don't tell anything.

Over and out im going for a

[mattmos]

But for me that means that everyone that took the Suite offer is now seen as either a max or maya user.

And then you base future decisions on these numbers? must be a joke.

Had to quote that as something that's crossed my mind more than once.

[luceric]

There is another data point that goes in Autodesk. When you run any Autodesk products for the first time on Windows, you get offered to opt-in the "Customer Involvement Program"http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/in ... eID=123112. This sends various metrics data to Autodesk about how you use the software. With this program, which a surprising amount of people opt into, the company draws statistics about usage. So they know roughly what products in the Suites the clients actually use, and how much time they spend in each of them.

[Rez007]

...We also took the "maya/SOFTIMAGE/MUDBOX/MOTIONBUILDER" suite because of the very very good priced offer back then....

Any chance you could share how much the upgrade was? I was looking into this the other day with my reseller for Max and it seemed to be higher than I remembered...now $1,495.00, but I think I saw a post a while back where it was about $1000.00 - but I cannot find that post anywhere.

Thanks.

[bottleofram]

...Look at this Master class video from David Lightbown, and let me know what is better workflow http://area.autodesk.com/masterclasses/ ... q1_2012...

Its one of those rare moments when you see someone else other than people from softimage team talk about softimage, only to realize he has actually done the simplest thing possible in ICE and went on to do the more complex one in maya/python. You would think a "code less, create more" would have caught on by now.

...Results and word of mouth goes a long way to changing numbers of seats. Ongoing rants like this only scare off potential customers if they happen to see it, and for no good reason.

SI is under full development and being shipped to Max and Maya customers who probably wouldn't even look at it otherwise...

The fact that it is being shipped to max and maya users means absolutely nothing. Toxic and Matchmover are being shipped left and right - hardly anyone cares about those either. And it is not our worry if a potential customer gets scared off, its Autodesks job to ensure it doesn't come to that.

Ok, there's a lot there and I'm not sure I can really directly answer...
...

Bellsey , it doesn't seem like we can take anything out of your response except that, at the moment, there's a huge imperative on suits at Autodesk and will stay that way in foreseeable future. Keeping in mind you cant talk about many things, we have to accept that and move on... but its not pleasant being on this side.

The questions raised here, and in similar threads, will stand as reminders that the actions taken by Autodesk since 2010 have done next to nothing to address core customers worries and needs. Quite the contrary...

In any case, thank you
Alex

[Rez007]

While it has been mentioned about what we think a new generation of software would be, and the continued support of interop between packages by AD employees - if all 3 are going to continue, I think better interop would be great. Especially, an IK system that is not propriatary per package but maybe one that would work throughout - if this is even possible - like maybe CAT integration in all 3 or something similar, where I can use an IK rig from either Max or Maya and bring it into Softimage. The reason I mention this, and why I was looking into the Suites, is that a possible project might skip me because they have everything setup with Biped in Max, and from what Autodesk support told me and looking around by myself, there is no way to get that rig into Softimage...So, that would be a nice addition. Better interop all around in the future so no one would have to worry about what package the originating data started in...wishful thinking I guess.

[Firebird]

...We also took the "maya/SOFTIMAGE/MUDBOX/MOTIONBUILDER" suite because of the very very good priced offer back then....

Any chance you could share how much the upgrade was? I was looking into this the other day with my reseller for Max and it seemed to be higher than I remembered...now $1,495.00, but I think I saw a post a while back where it was about $1000.00 - but I cannot find that post anywhere.

Thanks.

You got a PM.
Back to topic

[Maximus]

I actually dunno whats supposed to be a next-gen software. Kinda speechless about it. Do we really need something like that? When there are so many things that can be fixed and improved.
Whats this next-gen everyone talkin about? Some alien tech that no one has?

[Sil3]

The reason I mention this, and why I was looking into the Suites, is that a possible project might skip me because they have everything setup with Biped in Max, and from what Autodesk support told me and looking around by myself, there is no way to get that rig into Softimage...

I have done that in Xsi 7.5 some years ago with the old FBX export option (or was it Collada?). I had a Biped Rig that I took into Xsi and fine tuned the Envelope Weights, Animated in Xsi and then exported it all into Max again, sure you will get a keyframe on everyframe, but at the time it was beter than having to learn the pain of Envelope Paint and Animating with Biped in Max.

I cant recall the exact steps of it since it was long ago, but it was something like export the Rig in to Xsi envelope it, re-export to Max, Animate in Xsi and re-export the scene back into MAx and Character Studio would update with the Animation.