OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

[owei]

I´ve followed this discussion very carefully and I think, that Rez007´s last post sums it all up very well.
We SI users sometimes feel like the owners of a "little ugly gray duck" which should be seen as wonderful white swan by all the others, someday ;)

But here are some points I would like to make from my point of view:
Even if ICE a big deal, Mark mentioned in his post following about the spooky fact, that SI had no specific presentation at Siggraph this year:

...Anyway, the only solution we could think of was to do private NDA demos, so that is what I did.... to just about every major studio who was at the show. I think everyone that saw it left most impressed and for some a little annoyed they hadn't seen more of ICE in the past!

Post can be found here:http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/marks/lagoa_in_new_york

oops! So Mark got really close to potential SI customers and what do the say? They wish to have seen more of SI´s ICE capabilities in the past and they are annoyed, that they haven´t ?? This means in my eyes: AD is doing no good job on marketing and selling SI to potential customers. Mark´s experience at siggraph is proof for that, in my eyes.

Some clients often ask me, which 3d software I´m using. This is what I usually get as an answer:
"Soft - whaaat? Never heard of that. 3ds Max, yes and Maya of course...but Soft - how? .."
What really annoys me, if one of them even tries to get information about SI via the AD website and comes back to me later and says:
"Well, I´ve looked around the AD website, but I didn´t find a word about Softimage..is it an high end package at all? Why don´t they show it then??"
It´s a shame, that I have to tell them this:
"You will have to use google to find out about Softimage..."

Again: webspace costs nothing, so I do not understand why AD isn´t featuring SI on their front page until this day.
Even marketing mails from AD are sent to decision makers in the 3D business, once again, even not mentioning that SI exist at all, bringing staff members, who are trying to get SI into their 3d firm´s pipeline, into heavy explanation trouble. What´s that?

I think, doing better in these areas will not cost anything, but bring some calming to the SI users, even if they know, that is SI developed further. And it might bring some new customers to AD and SI. So I´ll end up with this:

Dear Autodesk, please tell the people about Softimage, show it off and don´t keep it in the basement anymore. Thanks!

My 2 cents as a longtime SI user ;)
oliver

[Bellsey]

the issue with the website has been covered by me and others. Softimage is on the Autodesk website, just as every other product we do, and it easy to find. Ok, it might not be on the main front page, but again, neither are a number of other products. In the grand scheme of things, this is a minor thing really and on the user list Maurice did explain about the Autodesk website.

And just because Soft had no specific presense at Siggraph, it doesn't mean that we aren't pushing it. There's nearly always pvt demos at many of the trade shows anyway.

[owei]

Dear Graham,
I know, that I´m redundant with some issues. I know about that the web issue and that is has been discussed on and on and that SI IS on AD´s website YES. I´ve just wanted to point out what people tell ME if they are looking for SI at AD´s site. They´ll have to search for it by search function, via google or step through "all products"...in deed. Some people percept this as "SI is not worth putting it on the front page.." I´m trying to describe their PERCEPTION. There might be some plausible explanations for that, but you won´t get a second chance to "undo" this first impression.

And concerning the siggraph. My point was, that people, potential customers, as Mark said, "major studios" were not aware of SI and ICE and were a "bit annoyed" about that.
I didn´t say that AD does not push SI. But, I think, they can do better. I know that you guys are motivated and please take these words as constructive critique. We all would like to predict a long life to SI!

cheers,
oliver

[Bellsey]

Dear Graham,
I know, that I´m redundant with some issues. I know about that the web issue and that is has been discussed on and on and that SI IS on AD´s website YES. I´ve just wanted to point out what people tell ME if they are looking for SI at AD´s site. They´ll have to search for it by search function, via google or step through "all products"...in deed. Some people percept this as "SI is not worth putting it on the front page.." I´m trying to describe their PERCEPTION. There might be some plausible explanations for that, but you won´t get a second chance to "undo" this first impression.

well if you are on the main page, the pop up product menu, you can list all products alphabetically, Soft is in there.
So it's not that hard to find really.

And concerning the siggraph. My point was, that people, potential customers, as Mark said, "major studios" were not aware of SI and ICE and were a "bit annoyed" about that.
I didn´t say that AD does not push SI. But, I think, they can do better. I know that you guys are motivated and please take these words as constructive critique. We all would like to predict a long life to SI!

I see your point, though I don't think this is so much to do with marketing, but there is some aspect. We do try and show software to many customers, but sometime they are too busy to spare any time. Often shows like Siggraph are there best chances to see stuff. So I think its a mixture of marketing, yes, but also the right timing for customers as well.

Sorry for any snappy answers or delays, I'm typing this while on the IBC booth.

[luceric]

I'm tired of the posts blaming Autodesk web site or marketting for clients not knowing the name "Softimage".

"Softimage" is close to 25 years old and XSI was released more than 10 years ago.
Autodesk has only owned it for 1 year and 9 month.
Softimage had its own web site for 15 years.

It has nothing to do but the fact that Maya is so overwhelming successful in the film/VFX market.
It's not the result of 1 year, 9 months.


Eventually, you guys are going to have to accept your software of choice. It's not Coke or Pepsi, it's a finely roasted gourmet coffee.

[Hirazi Blue]

Eventually, you guys are going to have to accept your software of choice.

I think "we guys" have accepted our software of choice a long time ago. Handling all criticism in this manner doesn't help IMHO though. While you obviously are free to vehemently disagree with the views of people doing the criticizing, implying/stating that these critics just haven't accepted their software of choice, while some (most) of them are long-time users, definitively not hell-bent on harming it, verges on the laughable, if not downright insulting...

Let's settle on laughable... &

[owei]

...and I´m tired of being told that no one is responsable for SI´s perception in public. It´s all due to whatever, but not AD marketing at all.

I did NOT blame AD momentary website for the fact, that nobody knows SI by now. I don´t blame AD for SI momentary market share. My point was, just to tell how MY clients NOW percept the name "Softimage" and AD´s momentary website coverage about it. Getting SI in peoples mind is a long term project.

Well. Maya is owned for some longer time by AD and was competitor to SI. So of course it´s success could not be the result of AD´s owning SI for 1 year and 9 month. Rather the fact AD was NOT owning SI for a longer time ;)

I´ve always known, and I think most of "us guys" know, that we were and are using an "underdog" software. Hopefully this "underdog" will not die due to distemper ;)

The future is bright! I´m convinced...

[luceric]

Hirazi, I think truncating my point like that changes the meaning. That was meant to say that Maya and Max are like Pepsi and Coke, and everyone knows their names

[dwigfor]

Softimage, the RC Cola of 3d Animation.

[Zafar Iqbal]

This ICE deal can attract ppl who otherwise wouldn't even look at XSI. I'm currently working with some Maya guys, and at the beginning of the co-op the mood was "XSI... pfffft". But now, less than a month later they are much more open minded. The only reason for that was their own research without any XSI guy trying to lure them, and them discovering the possibilities with ICE vs. the competition... but, IMO the "Autodesk" infront of "Softimage" helps a lot. Although it's speculation I don't think they would be that quick to look into XSI if it wasn't for that as well. I love to use XSI for most, if not all, of my work. Why would I use anything else? If I did use anything else, it would be for some specific task - and by doing so might discover other cool things in that app and then use it even more. Same thing applies to XSI. It has to be "snuck" in. Studios aren't going to drop their current and working pipelines just because Autodesk bought another 3D software.

[Tekano]

Aww Hirazi Blue give Luceric a break, he is not dealing with 'Handling all criticism' merely expressing his view on an aspect of this topic, which I'm very glad to hear and entirely agree with him. Blaming Autodesk for other people not already knowing Softimage software or brand is actually a pretty daft standpoint considering their histories , and also isn't this supposed to be a function of this message board for the users to be able to vent a spleen or have an opinion in a sharing manner??

I remember , well roughly 15 years ago, some Canadian client mocking me on my 3D studio r2 for Dos usage and said I needed to be looking at some serious animation and special effects software, and back then the 'cola cans' were most definitely Softimage|3D and Alias 'Power Animator' as for the lack of of Softimage awareness or world domination in media & entertainment, I would point the blame first at Microsoft (1994-1998) and then Avid (1998-2008) before looking at Autodesk.

For me, forcing a reminisce from 1995 now , after seeing both demonstrations, and having the luxury of choice, I chose Softimage over Alias as it seemed much more animator orientated, less 1980 in button selection procedures, but it was clear that they both were infinitely superior in speed and complexity to the (then) crude and ungainly 3D studio. (Which Autodesk soon bought and renamed Max)

So the way I interpret this current round of marketing is that either its mean spirited or simple ignorance for Autodesk to announce the only players in town (in regards to 3D animation & special effects pipeline software) are Max or Maya when Softimage was there long before them and ever since Maya first came out, had been seen as a 'rival' to use 'marketing' ploys against.

Anyways Softimage may be down (in Market share) but it certainly aint out yet! Ding Ding

[Hirazi Blue]

Aww Tekano, give Hirazi Blue a break...
For expressing my opinion (sometimes in (too?) strong a manner, I do admit) I have been called all sorts of names on this forum now ("conspiracy theorists", "hysterical" and "daft" among others). I even get blamed for opinions (that are "daft"), that were introduced to the discussion by others, not by me.
It's funny how people tend to rush to the defense of the poor old Softimage employees, who are actually quite capable of defending themselves, never once to the defense of that "silly" old moderator at the si-community, who has to put up with all kinds of abuse, whenever he does something else than place a link between the proper URL tags.


P.S. And another thing: Luc-Eric's remark was IMHO ambiguous at best...
I took it the wrong way. I AM SO SORRY! End of story (wishful thinking in action!)... ;)

[Tekano]

Hi Hirazi, I honestly did not intend to call you daft - only the folk that blame Autodesk for the current lack of Softimage awareness - I have not seen you taking this point of view, so really , if you saw it as a personal attack then I am sorry. Im not Leaping to defense either but did think you were a bit harsh, a lot can be interpreted different ways, afterall comments from SI staff ARE valuable and we dont want to scare them off...? Yes you are working hard and I appreciate all your concerns - some of them I share, just not all. peace ?

[Bellsey]

I remember , well roughly 15 years ago, some Canadian client mocking me on my 3D studio r2 for Dos usage and said I needed to be looking at some serious animation and special effects software, and back then the 'cola cans' were most definitely Softimage|3D and Alias 'Power Animator' as for the lack of of Softimage awareness or world domination in media & entertainment, I would point the blame first at Microsoft (1994-1998) and then Avid (1998-2008) before looking at Autodesk.

For me, forcing a reminisce from 1995 now , after seeing both demonstrations, and having the luxury of choice, I chose Softimage over Alias as it seemed much more animator orientated, less 1980 in button selection procedures, but it was clear that they both were infinitely superior in speed and complexity to the (then) crude and ungainly 3D studio. (Which Autodesk soon bought and renamed Max)

I think its hard to 'blame' (for want of a better word) anyone really, for maybe the state of Softimage/XSI, over the years, etc. I was a production customer myself back then and the 3D software market was moving fast. Autodesk have always kinda 'owned' 3D Studio/Max. They published it before bringing the development in-house and push Max 1.0 out onto Windows NT under the branding of Kinetix. Meanwhile SGI had acquired Alias Wavefront, and Microsoft had snapped up Softimage. Co. The race for NT was on.

3D Studio already had quite a PC following from the R4 days and it carried on for Max. Plus being on PC meant it was easier to obtain pirate copies and run them. PowerAnimator and Softimage3D were unix and so had some catching up to do. Unix and SG machines were great and were literally bullet proof, but they were expensive. With PC hardware power moving fast, the push to PC and NT was really inevitable.

Power Animator and Soft3D were kinda evenly matched back then, though Soft always had the edge for animation. But they were starting to look tired and EOL in their current forms and with new hardware and OS's to look at, they needed to change. Whoever could get their 'new' product to the market first was always going to have the head start.
Maya got there at just the right time and it looked fresh. Seeing Maya for the first time and the capability of MEL, I could tell it would change everything. Alias didn't rest easy, with XSI v1 still a year off, they couldn't afford to, and they pushed hard.

[Hirazi Blue]

@Tekano:

[steven07]

This bothers me quite a bit.. Seems like AD just bought out Soft to diminish the competition.. and they're doing that well through advertisement.. they aren't even under autodesk "products" on the website!!

And I don't blame AD completely because XSI artists aren't really doing anything about it either in terms of writing training material.. I know a lot of people who switched over to Maya and even LightWave because there was a lot more training material! I myself and one of those who use LW because it's so much easier to find training material! Of course there's many things that are better in Soft.. but I think we need to at least step it up ourselves.. Something that impresses me about LW is that they put out a newsletter every month.. not only does it show news.. but artists work! I think this is HUGE! Also, I really enjoy reading through XSI base's interviews.. and wish they did that more often.. but oh well..

I just don't think it's completely AD's fault that people aren't hearing about Soft.. notice I said completely though.. it is the company's job to promote their product though.. Sure.. they need to step up their game.. but I think we do too.. make something really cool? why not post it on YouTube or Vimeo so others can see? I know lots of people who choose software because of what they see.. I mean come on.. who isn't like that? If I see something cool I'm going to want to buy it.. and I KNOW Softimage is more than capable!