Maya LT

[Bellsey]

The scripting thing, I can understand, but it would be interesting to see exactly how many Unity developers are building custom Maya plugins for their small teams?
And I wonder if the lack of an SDK in LT is maybe not being able to build your own plug-ins in LT, or, that you cannot load third party plug-ins?

The scripting thing is not only about building plugins. I don't know if you work with maya, but everytime I ask a maya guy how he would do something in maya that I'm used to in Si, he would say " there is a script somewhere for that".
Script commands help a lot in maya to improve workflow. I would'nt use maya without it.

Actually yes I do use Maya, I've been using Maya pretty much as long as I've been using Softimage/XSI/3D, all the way back to Maya v1.0 and Power Animator before that, all in production.

To many these days, the thought of using Maya without scripting is very hard to comprehend, but it can be done.
Having been a TD, I don't want to dismiss or underestimate how useful something like scripting is for workflow and pipelines and for Maya, it's always been one of its strengths. The way people go on, it's as if working in Maya is somehow crippled without having to use a script, but that isn't really true and it can very much depend on the type of work you are doing and what you are creating.

I read on another forum (perhaps this one) that they hadn't tried Maya out of the box with no scripts, well I do this all the time in demos, presentations and even day to day work. Though there are lots of demo tricks you can use, I never like 'hiding' things from the audience, so I don't rely on scripts or secret hotkeys to show things working, and it's never really hindered me.

I do confess to having my own Maya shelf containing some small timesaving scripts, but I don't have anywhere near the number I used to have. Like many who've been using Maya for sometime, in the relatively early days, there was a tendency to 'overscript'. You'd create scripts and buttons for really small things, which in hindsight didn't actually save you a great deal of time. I do think people have kinda become a little too dependant on some things, when in fact they'd save more time if they used Maya's marking menus and hotbox more effectively (and many don't even now).
Also alot of MEL scripts that have appeared, have actually made it into the core software as additional features, etc.

A few months back, I did some Unity training and we went through exporting assets from Maya into Unity and setting the game scene up. I didn't touch or use a single script, even when I was creating my own simple polygon assets.

[Bellsey]

If the Mel thing is true, AD need to clarify this because that is a BIG difference. And if Python scripts are also usable that is even bigger. I don't know if I've missed that line but I didn't find it in any of the Autodesk pages.

You may want to render in a raytracing move quality render, but my point is that you don't really need to. Like Luc Eric was saying, a lot o games are using real time shaders to prerender their cutscenes, so the image taste wouldn't change so dramatically. Some folks may even think everything was in real time and PS3 is awesomely power. Ex, Last Of Us, Uncharted, Metal Gear, etc.

And if still you want to render, then yes, MayaLT is not an option.

[edit]
I see there is a trial version, I'll try it as soon as I can. If it can run scripts I may get a few licenses

Shawn Mcclelland (one of the product designers in the Games group) has expanded on this, over on Polycount:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost ... tcount=188

I apologize that this wasn't clarified better but yes no MEL support means no ability to author new MEL scripts or write MEL code within the application. Executing of MEL is still entirely possible as the entire Maya interface is built on MEL (no command input bar means having to be done via say shelf buttons). The caveat here is if your scripts tap into a feature or something that was removed it will likely cause errors because that code no longer exists (say you had something using follicles for example).

[Mathaeus]

comparison list is here
just a few:
- no scene rendering
- no set driven key tool

I'm wondering, what's cost of making all that removals.

[ojo3D]

How do you render from the viewport? lol

Since Viewport 2.0 was added into Maya, the Hardware renderer has also been updated to the creatively named Hardware 2.0. It basically allows you to render using all the VP2.0 options.

Thanks Graham ... I didn't know.


As for the ability to runs scripts, that's is a game changer. Because if the studio has an full Maya and Maya LT, some programmer/TD can use the full app and develop some specific scripts to improve the usability of LT where the studio think it's needed.

Autodesk from the beginning should have explained that better as I sense this is what troubled users the most. I think the other only thing it could have been kept perfect is the animation tools. Since you don't get render (for the already explained reasons), ability to script in LT or dynamics, we should have the full capabilities of Maya's animation (or at least some more things).

Ex.: - Animation layers
- Set driven key

Seeying the compare features again, I think this is the only "let-down" of the package.

[ojo3D]

I read on another forum (perhaps this one) that they hadn't tried Maya out of the box with no scripts, well I do this all the time in demos, presentations and even day to day work. Though there are lots of demo tricks you can use, I never like 'hiding' things from the audience, so I don't rely on scripts or secret hotkeys to show things working, and it's never really hindered me.

A few months back, I did some Unity training and we went through exporting assets from Maya into Unity and setting the game scene up. I didn't touch or use a single script, even when I was creating my own simple polygon assets.

Hey Graham ... can't you use Softimage instead in this presentations?

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

The scripting thing, I can understand, but it would be interesting to see exactly how many Unity developers are building custom Maya plugins for their small teams?
And I wonder if the lack of an SDK in LT is maybe not being able to build your own plug-ins in LT, or, that you cannot load third party plug-ins?

The scripting thing is not only about building plugins. I don't know if you work with maya, but everytime I ask a maya guy how he would do something in maya that I'm used to in Si, he would say " there is a script somewhere for that".
Script commands help a lot in maya to improve workflow. I would'nt use maya without it.

Actually yes I do use Maya, I've been using Maya pretty much as long as I've been using Softimage/XSI/3D, all the way back to Maya v1.0 and Power Animator before that, all in production.

To many these days, the thought of using Maya without scripting is very hard to comprehend, but it can be done.
Having been a TD, I don't want to dismiss or underestimate how useful something like scripting is for workflow and pipelines and for Maya, it's always been one of its strengths. The way people go on, it's as if working in Maya is somehow crippled without having to use a script, but that isn't really true and it can very much depend on the type of work you are doing and what you are creating.

I read on another forum (perhaps this one) that they hadn't tried Maya out of the box with no scripts, well I do this all the time in demos, presentations and even day to day work. Though there are lots of demo tricks you can use, I never like 'hiding' things from the audience, so I don't rely on scripts or secret hotkeys to show things working, and it's never really hindered me.

I do confess to having my own Maya shelf containing some small timesaving scripts, but I don't have anywhere near the number I used to have. Like many who've been using Maya for sometime, in the relatively early days, there was a tendency to 'overscript'. You'd create scripts and buttons for really small things, which in hindsight didn't actually save you a great deal of time. I do think people have kinda become a little too dependant on some things, when in fact they'd save more time if they used Maya's marking menus and hotbox more effectively (and many don't even now).
Also alot of MEL scripts that have appeared, have actually made it into the core software as additional features, etc.

A few months back, I did some Unity training and we went through exporting assets from Maya into Unity and setting the game scene up. I didn't touch or use a single script, even when I was creating my own simple polygon assets.

I have no doubt, that you can use maya without the scripts. You can use any software out of the box as well as you can do very beautiful things with any of the major packages around. The question always is: how fast can you do it, and how big is the PITA factor. Without custom script buttons, the PITA factor in maya is quite high.

[myara]

I have no doubt, that you can use maya without the scripts. You can use any software out of the box as well as you can do very beautiful things with any of the major packages around. The question always is: how fast can you do it, and how big is the PITA factor. Without custom script buttons, the PITA factor in maya is quite high.

I think Bellsey is saying that Maya out of the box isn't as bad as it used to be. Maya workflow has improved a lot in the last years, and including NEX since 2014. Now, it's almost as good as SI out of the box in some aspects, ok, not quite there yet but a lot better.

But as good as SI is out of the box, I can't live without a few plugins in my workgroup, and a few more in my Maya scripts folder.

Anyway, if MLT does let you use prewritten mel, then you could have "your Maya" workflow in MLT and that's great. The question is will it support Python scripts too? I'll try to install a trial version this week !

[ojo3D]

I think Bellsey is saying that Maya out of the box isn't as bad as it used to be. Maya workflow has improved a lot in the last years, and including NEX since 2014. Now, it's almost as good as SI out of the box in some aspects, ok, not quite there yet but a lot better.

But as good as SI is out of the box, I can't live without a few plugins in my workgroup, and a few more in my Maya scripts folder.

Anyway, if MLT does let you use prewritten mel, then you could have "your Maya" workflow in MLT and that's great. The question is will it support Python scripts too? I'll try to install a trial version this week !

As in the thread posted: "So Python itself is totally sandboxed and we do not allow the user to load or call into Python modules from within Maya LT. That also means that you are unable to load up .py plugin modules as well unfortunately."

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost ... tcount=188

So MEL will work because Maya works in MEL but Python won't work (script and plugins).

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

[
I think Bellsey is saying that Maya out of the box isn't as bad as it used to be. Maya workflow has improved a lot in the last years, and including NEX since 2014. Now, it's almost as good as SI out of the box in some aspects, ok, not quite there yet but a lot better.

But as good as SI is out of the box, I can't live without a few plugins in my workgroup, and a few more in my Maya scripts folder.

Anyway, if MLT does let you use prewritten mel, then you could have "your Maya" workflow in MLT and that's great. The question is will it support Python scripts too? I'll try to install a trial version this week !

It is true, maya has improved. Only I wouldn't use SI without scripting as well, I mean I would but I wouldn't like it ;)
Anyway, if i can load my custom shelfes in Maya LT, it is not that bad. But still: why maya LT? What advantage would it have over other tools (apart from the renting, which has to prove as an advantage first)?

[myara]

Besides the gorgeous viewer I would like to have in SI, nothing. Not killer features I think, but it's Maya and you can easily find top quality artists that are already very familiar with it. It's more expensive to expend weeks trying to learn or train your team, than use a $50 rental soft. (or $80 here).

If you have a talented team that can use Blender, then blender may be your best option. The same with C4D, LW or Modo.

If we start from 0, were your artists don't know Maya but are willing to learn any software, then MLT isn't a very appealing option.

Mel without Python is still better than no Mel at all. I have a few python tools and I am starting to python in Maya, I guess I'll have to go back to Mel again if I want to have MLT as an option.

[bottleofram]

[
I think Bellsey is saying that Maya out of the box isn't as bad as it used to be. Maya workflow has improved a lot in the last years, and including NEX since 2014. Now, it's almost as good as SI out of the box in some aspects, ok, not quite there yet but a lot better.

But as good as SI is out of the box, I can't live without a few plugins in my workgroup, and a few more in my Maya scripts folder.

Anyway, if MLT does let you use prewritten mel, then you could have "your Maya" workflow in MLT and that's great. The question is will it support Python scripts too? I'll try to install a trial version this week !

It is true, maya has improved. Only I wouldn't use SI without scripting as well, I mean I would but I wouldn't like it ;)
Anyway, if i can load my custom shelfes in Maya LT, it is not that bad. But still: why maya LT? What advantage would it have over other tools (apart from the renting, which has to prove as an advantage first)?

Cheaper, very well known and production proven (why people insist referring to it as a new product is beyond me), backed by studios around the world, supplied by a wealth of educational material (will be even more so very soon as DT can hardly wait for another "intro to" series to add to their collection), huge talent pool etc. etc.

Autodesk are smart. Just as modo started growing out, they slide themselves right into the opening.

[Manticor]

Someone has already found a workaround for the lack of mel.

tried it already... it works.

which means soon there will probably be a raft of exporters that can export above 25k.

http://max3d.pl/forum/showthread.php?p=1174109

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

Autodesk are smart. Just as modo started growing out, they slide themselves right into the opening.

And prevent anyone who's new to 3d try anything else than maya.
Well known also goes for max. Will there be max LT?

[myara]

And prevent anyone who's new to 3d try anything else than maya.

Isn't that obvious? That's how business work.

Well known also goes for max. Will there be max LT?

I wouldn't expect a Max or SI LT. It doesn't make sense to develope and support 2 rival applications of your flag ship.

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

And prevent anyone who's new to 3d try anything else than maya.

Isn't that obvious? That's how business work.

Well known also goes for max. Will there be max LT?

I wouldn't expect a Max or SI LT. It doesn't make sense to develope and support 2 rival applications of your flag ship.

I think trying to take the game sector away from the max community isn't a smart move. It just looks as aimless as anything AD did since they acquired maya.
It also never made sense to acquire 3 (three!) rival apllications in the first place without having a plan what to do with it.

But anyway I only try to see what's behind the things. I don't mind people being happy about Maya LT.

[myara]

I think trying to take the game sector away from the max community isn't a smart move. It just looks as aimless as anything AD did since they acquired maya.
It also never made sense to acquire 3 (three!) rival apllications in the first place without having a plan what to do with it.

But anyway I only try to see what's behind the things. I don't mind people being happy about Maya LT.

I don't have AD numbers, but from my experience, In Japan, Max is probably the weakest of the 3 in the japanese gaming industry, Softimage still has some popularity with Capcom, Platinum Games, and some others, but Maya is the king. I don't know if there is any school teaching Softimage or Max here, but I haven't heard of any.
And afaik, Maya is the most popular in the Movie industry also. So, the truth is, Maya is the most popular application, the one that has more users, more students, and more companies using it.
So, is the best move to push your strongest application Or should they try to sell more SI and Max licenses? I don't know, but with MayaLT it looks clearer what path AD has taken.

I don't think AD didn't have a plan.