OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

General discussion about 3D DCC and other topics
Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 09:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Bellsey » 21 Aug 2010, 16:19

I'm sorry if you believe that I and others are being patronisng, it's certainly not my intent. All I can suggest is that comments that are written here can be 'lost in translation' maybe, in what I perhaps might be trying to say.
The disclaimer is there to really to be clear that what I sometimes say is not Autodesk policy, and shouldn't be taken as such.

I do not just dismiss what people say either, I try and give good reason behind all of my comments, especially if I'm trying to answer peoples questions. I'm enitiled to disagree with people's comments, just as you are free to disagree against mine. Also it's not an issue of what's 'accepted by Autodesk' just because I/we go against or disagree with what people are saying. It could be people have the facts wrong, then I don't see nothing wrong in maybe correcting them, or suggesting another point of view. If I/we disagree its not because we just like shooting people down for the pure fun of it either, it's because maybe a comment, or situation has been read wrong and we're offering some kind of response. However, it can be hard for us to be completely honest in the way people want.

Autodesk do not moderate this forum, nor do we complain or ask for comments to be removed, not here or anywhere else. That would be totally wrong, unless there was some kind of legal implication. We do have a thick skin about this, you kinda have to, certainly in my job. The only thing I would ask for is some fairness and appreciation on maybe our view, instead of people just assuming, incorrectly or otherwise, that we're just ignoring or denying peoples comments and just believing that we're always correct. Autodesk is not perfect and I've never said they were.

One more thing that I would offer some view about, the reason why sometimes people like myself or Chinny and others get frustrated is that we say time and time again about certain situations, policies, roadmaps, etc, etc. Yet people just seem to dismiss anything we might say as if we're deliberately lying or misleading people, just to get them quiet, when this is not the case. People then ask us the same questions again, knowing full well that we can't give the answers they want, which then only fuels the ever burning fire of gossip, rumours and scaremongering.
Of course, I'm not saying don't ask or debate anything, but at the same time, don't put us down if you get the same answer on some comments. You might know the reasons why, please cut us some slack :), or not, that's people prorogative. Certainly from my point of view, I try and be as open as I can be.

As I mentioned I will be at IBC, and also other Autodesk/Reseller events, if people want to chat to me about anything, then I'm more than happy to.

User avatar
Maximus
Posts: 1121
Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 13:45

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Maximus » 21 Aug 2010, 19:54

I think that everyone appreciate the touch and the contact we got lately with AD on forums and people like you Bellsay, personally i like it and i'm sorry if some of my post or everyone else sounded a bit harsh, you know when it comes to softwares its kinda a disaster to moderate eheh.

Anyway i just wanted to help, maybe i didnt chose the right words or the method, but i wanted to report to your eyes (AD ones) that the feeling we have is shared by lots of people, and the evidence can pop sometimes out in some forums or questions like that link on cgtalk.

This doesnt mean that Softimage is in trouble, is not bein developed or Chinny and the other guys behind the curtains arent working hard, its just that personally i consider this a great product and i get a bit questioning when i dont see it bein pushed by the software house who owns it and who gains money from it, just because its weird.
If i own something i would try to push it to death to have people buy it, maybe AD is doing it but its slipping from my eyes :D

No flame or other serious stuff, its just curiosity :)
Thanks for taking the time to answer us all anyway !

User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5113
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 10:15

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Hirazi Blue » 21 Aug 2010, 20:07

@Rork
You're objection to the continuation of this thread is noted.
As a moderator, I am, however, not convinced this can be considered
a valid reason to close this thread.
:-?
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

User avatar
Rork
Posts: 1359
Joined: 09 Jul 2009, 06:59
Location: Close to The Hague, Netherlands

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Rork » 22 Aug 2010, 08:48

Ok,

Last comments.....

After all the replies from Graham and Chinnie, also on the mailing list, we more or less should have figured out Softimage isn't being side lined soon. There's a strong development going on, we get a new update soon after SP1, with the very exciting Lagoa simulation tools and some other stuff too. (don't ask what, NDA stuff...)

I can remember the same threads when AD bought Maya, and the same comments when the dev cycle seemed to run dry. Everybody panicked and went crazy.
For SI there's also (finally) a growing list of plugins and renderers (coming), would anyone start this up when AD is going to dump SI any time soon??
Me personally are very happy testing Arnold, with a very devoted dev team behind it. Another good thing to wait for. :)

And to all, do understand people like Graham and Chinnie are sometimes bound to company rules regarding replies. That why a ton of people, not just Graham and Chinnie, have footnotes something like "This is not the company statement on the matter, but my personal view".

And Graham, I'll see you at the IBC. Will be nice to talk to you in person after all the email chatter in the past :-B

That's it for me, I'm not going to add anything more to this thread :ympeace:

rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5113
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 10:15

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Hirazi Blue » 22 Aug 2010, 09:50

Again, you make some valid points, Rork, but this thread never was about fears for the future of Softimage, not even, as far as I can tell, about mindless Autodesk-bashing, fear mongering and the like, but more about the way Autodesk|Softimage are handling their advertising and their PR. Some people are obviously more confident than others that Autodesk|Softimage is doing a good job in that respect. But these fears didn't necessarily go away, when "they" announced their "Subscription Advantage Pack".
And implying this specific thread is panicky and contains posts by people "going crazy" seems a bit far-fetched. There were some other threads earlier that might have deserved that judgment, but this thread does seem merely annoying to people not convinced of the merit of the discussion. And that's obviously easily fixed: ignore!

And again, this is me, trying to speak as a moderator, which can be quite confusing as I have been very vocally present as a user in this thread also. 8-}
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

electricgeisha
Posts: 28
Joined: 07 Jul 2010, 13:25

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by electricgeisha » 22 Aug 2010, 10:49

Hirazi Blue wrote:Again, you make some valid points, Rork, but this thread never was about fears for the future of Softimage, not even, as far as I can tell, about mindless Autodesk-bashing, fear mongering and the like, but more about the way Autodesk|Softimage are handling their advertising and their PR. Some people are obviously more confident than others that Autodesk|Softimage is doing a good job in that respect. But these fears didn't necessarily go away, when "they" announced their "Subscription Advantage Pack".
And implying this specific thread is panicky and contains posts by people "going crazy" seems a bit far-fetched. There were some other threads earlier that might have deserved that judgment, but this thread does seem merely annoying to people not convinced of the merit of the discussion. And that's obviously easily fixed: ignore!

And again, this is me, trying to speak as a moderator, which can be quite confusing as I have been very vocally present as a user in this thread also. 8-}
I totally agree. Where has anyone gone "crazy" here? Also "Panic" are you for real? We have merely discussed some issues... we have seen some blatant contradictions take place in regards to SI in the last fews months which are open for discussion. Autodesk bashing? ummm we all own the product and pay subscriptions.. I personally own a seat of SI,Max,Maya and Mudbox all under subscription and that quite frankly as a consumer gives me the right to raise questions on development.

So if asking questions, pointing out where maybe they have said one thing and done the other makes us CRAZZZZYYYY then it is really a relief not to be NORMAL.

User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5113
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 10:15

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Hirazi Blue » 22 Aug 2010, 10:53

In all fairness: the phrase "Autodesk bashing" was brought into this discussion by me, not by Rork... ;)
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

electricgeisha
Posts: 28
Joined: 07 Jul 2010, 13:25

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by electricgeisha » 22 Aug 2010, 11:04

Hirazi Blue wrote:In all fairness: the phrase "Autodesk bashing" was brought into this discussion by me, not by Rork... ;)
Well you are a very bad person! =))

Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 09:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Bellsey » 23 Aug 2010, 11:16

electricgeisha wrote:we have seen some blatant contradictions take place in regards to SI in the last fews months.....
electricgeisha wrote:where maybe they have said one thing and done the other.........
Could you clarify what you mean by these statements? I'm not trying to dismiss anything here, but I'd like to know what you are referring too when you say this, maybe I missed something. Personally I'm not aware of of any reversals, so I'm interested in knowing what they were.

User avatar
redmotion
Posts: 150
Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 16:38
Location: London

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by redmotion » 26 Aug 2010, 10:52

Hi Graham,

Do you know if there will be a trail/demo version of 2011.5 including Lagoa/empolygoniser?

Cheers.

User avatar
xsisupport
Posts: 713
Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 09:02
Location: Montreal Canada

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by xsisupport » 26 Aug 2010, 13:23

redmotion wrote:Hi Graham,

Do you know if there will be a trail/demo version of 2011.5 including Lagoa/empolygoniser?

Cheers.
I doubt it.
// Steve Blair
// "You're not a runner, you're just a guy who runs" -- my wife
//
// My Blogs: Arnold | Softimage

Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 09:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Bellsey » 26 Aug 2010, 19:41

redmotion wrote:Hi Graham,

Do you know if there will be a trail/demo version of 2011.5 including Lagoa/empolygoniser?

Cheers.
To be honest, I don't know.
If you recall Marks post, the forthcoming Softimage Advantage Pack will be for Subscription customers only.

electricgeisha
Posts: 28
Joined: 07 Jul 2010, 13:25

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by electricgeisha » 26 Aug 2010, 21:59

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/in ... eID=123112

Are you sure that SI it is being treated equally? These are the contradictions (maybe not the correct word) I was mentioning, this is the third time here that we have be reassured then the following few weeks a new marketing campaign appears and well the ad speaks for it's self. I am not trying to re hash, I am just pointing out we are not doom and gloom here, we are purely pointing what you show us is not a positive approach to marketing SI as a standalone product and frankly without looking deeper into this ad you would not know AD owned Softimage.

User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5113
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 10:15

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Hirazi Blue » 27 Aug 2010, 08:12

Just add ICE—Now part of the Autodesk® Entertainment Creation Suite Premium, Softimage® ICE enables you to create amazing effects from fluids to crowds faster.
The wording is impeccable... "Softimage® ICE", indeed :))
(not ICE as a part of the product Softimage, but Softimage ICE as the plugin it apparently really has become...)

Please note: this is merely a comment on the wording of that advertisement,
not really a blatant attempt at more "fear-mongering"...

User avatar
redmotion
Posts: 150
Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 16:38
Location: London

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by redmotion » 27 Aug 2010, 08:35

To be honest, I don't know.
Shame. So in a sense, I'll be paying my subscription (if I so choose) in the hope that 2011.5 is working perfectly (or at least contains no major "showstoppers"). No try before I buy!
Softimage ICE as the plugin it apparently really has become
At least it's not ACTUALLY a plugin. It's still standalone, it's still good general 3d work. And it will remain so, as long as non-Soft places buy the premium pack and begin to include it in their pipelines.

I'd really be surprised if the SI devs roadmap did not intend to "ICE" Softimage completely. And I'd be surprised if AD didn't think that is a good idea also, considering it is SI's main 'unique selling point'. Maybe they'll change the branding and actually call it ICE instead... Who knows...

I'm positive about SI's future. I just wish I could afford to take part! (...cry me a river - Ed.)

User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5113
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 10:15

Re: OK, so the sky isn't falling, but AD isn't marketing SI well

Post by Hirazi Blue » 27 Aug 2010, 08:56

redmotion wrote: Shame. So in a sense, I'll be paying my subscription (if I so choose) in the hope that 2011.5 is working perfectly (or at least contains no major "showstoppers"). No try before I buy!
Basically, that has always been the "beauty"/"mixed blessing" of Subscription,
based on the willingness to "buy (long) before you try". ;)

At least you have the luxury of having some info about the new version, mostly when I renew my Subscription the new version is months away and there is no info about it whatsoever...
Stay safe, sane & healthy!