Maya LT

[Rez007]

I just want to share my thoughts, as I am an Indie Game Developer ( Blaster X HD: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/blaster ... 51024?mt=8 )

I actually think that this is somewhat a smart move from Autodesk. I think it depends on what the goal and the actual budget of the teams maybe. The cheapest way to make a game on Apple iOS now is $99.00 - that's it. This would only be for the Developer cost that Apple requires in order to distribute a game on iTunes. The software used would be Blender and Unity, which are both free (Unity's non-pro version is free along with the export engines for iOS and Android.)

I think why MayaLT would be a good idea is if someone was to join a team for a short term or even up to a year, who would possibly be an asset creator or something similar. The mobile game industry is moving very fast and games are taking much longer than 3 months to make. A quick throw-a-way game, can take 3 months. If you want to make anything good that has the chance of doing well, it is going to take longer, especially if the team is small, which is who Autodesk is targeting. I think MayaLT is a great alternative to Maya, but I don't know how well Blender users are going to transfer over, especially if their software is free.

I think it is a step in the right direction, but there are a couple of things that could make it better. 1.) Would be the Camera Sequencer. This was just added in Softimage as a way to make in-game cinematic, why leave it out when games are your target? 2.) A lot of games, especially the type that would be made with MayaLT, since the 25,000 polygon limit geared towards character was mentioned, have some soft of cinematic, whether "flash" style or an full animated video like ours in Blaster X HD. How can you do that in MayaLT? I think MayaLT is going to be a great add-on for small teams, but somewhere in that pipe, I feel might to have to be something a little more beefier.

Also, what happens when someone wants to go into MayaLT just to look at a file and their rental is over...I assume they will have to pay for the month - minimum - just to check the file out.

I think if you are already on subscription for Maya, then I would just stick to paying for that. MayaLT is definitely a good choice though for someone who has not made the initial purchase and is looking to get a game going.

I used Softimage for our game and I wouldn't go to anything else - just my preference.

[Nizar]

I think MayaLT is a great alternative to Maya, but I don't know how well Blender users are going to transfer over, especially if their software is free.

MayaLT is definitely a good choice though for someone who has not made the initial purchase and is looking to get a game going.

Blender is not only free, is more capable compared to Maya LT (and out of the box rigging system is better IMHO, but I have a very limited experience in Maya). So if you don't know at all blender (impossible) and are a Maya users, you can sticky with maya (but really, why? The only reason I can think about is you don't want leave your comfort zone). The only other reason is if you are a freelance and want work with studio (big or little) Maya based, but limitation is very deal breaker (no obj, why?... so probably no goz), but again blender can export/import FBX, and in release 2.68 seems more robust then before.

Time will tell.

For the rest, I read is sure: No Softimage or 3DSM LT.

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

I think if you are already on subscription for Maya, then I would just stick to paying for that. MayaLT is definitely a good choice though for someone who has not made the initial purchase and is looking to get a game going.

Except that you can't have them use all your custom tools you made for your maya pipeline.

[ojo3D]

Except that you can't have them use all your custom tools you made for your maya pipeline.

The other thing is ... Luceric said that Maya LT will probably be used for renting options and most people wouldn't buy it. Well ... at least one seat must be bought if the owner of the studio needs to reopen the file on another instance and have constant access to the material.

Even if that job is done and he needs to start in the future another job that will use the same assets, he'll need to have Maya LT again to open the .MTL files.

I think my main problem is that I keep seeing things getting out only focused on Maya. Frank Delise posted on Max Underground that the ShaderFX (witch according to users was created in/for 3dsMax) is software agnostic, but now it's been show implemented in Maya LT. Project BiFrost the same (but in Maya). It's interesting as all plataform/software agnostic of Autodesk are showcased in Maya.

I mean ... I like Maya. I've been learning it to have the basics, but I love to play with Softimage and it's hard to continue investing time to learn with no idea of what's coming from it. I guess all of us here are somewhat mad. I was already saving money to purchase my license next year and it's hard to believe that would be a smart choice now.

Sorry for address other issues. I just thought I should explain my frustrations.

I'll stop deviating the thread.

[luceric]

it's true you'd need to rent maya lt again in the future if you wanted access to you .mlt file, however we know that's also true of you adobe assets with creative cloud. it's a new concept now, but not for long. also, since you've exported everything you've used to FBX to load them in the game engine, you have an app agnostic version of most of your data.

[Falam]

Bellsey mentioned, the reason why they won't resurface Softimage Foundation, because it did poorly in the past. The past was under Avid umbrella, which at the time, looking at the result today was in financial trouble. Autodesk should try it one more time, price it a little higher, don't shave to much off from the original package and give it 3 (yrs). If then it's a flop, accommodate the users who bought it, don't just cut them off at the knees and tell them to buy the full package.

I say it's no use trying to topple Maya, Autodesk has marketed too strongly, it's too engraved in peoples heads, similar to photoshop.

[ojo3D]

it's true you'd need to rent maya lt again in the future if you wanted access to you .mlt file, however we know that's also true of you adobe assets with creative cloud. it's a new concept now, but not for long.

Yes, but this is the single most-criticized "feature" of the adobe cloud.

[angus_davidson]

To be honest I am in two minds about Maya LT. On the one hand I think there is a definite need for a much simpler product aimed at the indie/ mobile game dev. (it will also be great in education for intro courses) On the other what was given (apart from Shader FX which looks great) to me doesnt warrant the $800 price (seriously no renderer / mel or SDK ).

If I was in that situation there are more then enough options from Blender which has come on dramatically in the last two years to , Silo (cheap for a very capable modeller) to even Modo which for a little more gives you a permanent fully fledged license.

The other big thing for me it ADSK is already battling with maintaining 3 separate packages, now they are going to 4. They are also marketing it slap bang in both Softimages and 3dsmax territory. Which I am sure will not thrill either community.

[Rez007]

it's true you'd need to rent maya lt again in the future if you wanted access to you .mlt file, however we know that's also true of you adobe assets with creative cloud. it's a new concept now, but not for long. also, since you've exported everything you've used to FBX to load them in the game engine, you have an app agnostic version of most of your data.

I can see the reasons of why this is in place, and also how it can be a possible issue for Indie Developers.

I think there is a HUGE key factor that Autodesk is missing, and that is what Indie Devs actually make per game. Most games on mobile will be lucky if they even make $2,000.00 for the life of the game. That is extremely low. There are reports that say the average game makes $80,000 on mobile for its life, but that is heavily skewed by the Top Grossing Games - Puzzle and Dragons, Clash of Clans, Hayday, etc. which each pull in Millions in a single day. For every one game that does well, there are thousands that don't see the light-of-day. There are some great games that barely make anything on mobile.

This is mainly due to visibility, which is the single hardest thing to accomplish for an Indie next to actually completing a title and releasing it to market. If you are an "unknown" Indie Dev, which most will be, and you do not get some kind of nod on Touch Arcade, you are pretty much done. Apple chooses their "New and Noteworthy" editorially - if you are in the lime light, Touch Arcade is the biggest player, then you might have a shot at this list and also the "What's Hot" list that will generally follow. This is where you make your money on mobile, these two lists. If you are an Indie and you don't make it on either of those it will be a very long hard road.

Most Indies cannot afford marketing and almost 90% of the review sites that might actually want to look at your game, require payment for review. That is not the practice of the big review sites, but getting reviewed by one of these if you are not known is very difficult. We got lucky with Kotaku and a couple of others, but it is not like our sales are flying in. The reason, is most people in the gaming community do not know our game exists.

The reason I mention this, is that a lot of Indies in mobile, know making money is a long shot, so it will be difficult for them to actually spend money upfront on a DCC software if their returns are going to be very low and might not even cover their costs. If Autodesk geared their sales towards small mobile studios, then yes, this could pick up rather well, which is who I think will be the main purchasers. Not being able to render with MayaLT is a big loss for an Indie along with some other things.

I feel if Autodesk would embrace the Indie Community, with some kind of "Indie Initiative" where they might help showcase some games made with their own product, that will go a long way in sales of their product and start to make trends in the mobile community. If Autodesk says "Hey this game, Blaster X HD (insert any title you'd like) is selling X amount of games using Softimage / MayaLT / or any of their software," I guarantee you the sales will pick up, especially if the game goes gangbusters. People tend to use what sells and what products were used on a really good selling game. Autodesk has the money and connections to make an impact on this part of the market, which not many people do. Envision, how good it would look if games (made by actual Indie Devs and not in-house by Autodesk) were featured in their booths during conventions and other marketing media.

Overall, I think this will work out okay for Autodesk, but the main market will be very small studios and not really Indies too much, unless it is a group of people that are already familiar with Maya or they want to "work with what everyone uses" type of mantra. If Autodesk would actually tap into the core Indie Market, then it can explode. Just look how Unity is doing it.

Thanks,
Rudy

Co-Founder 2GMG (2 Guys Making Games)
Creator of Blaster X HD: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/blaster ... 51024?mt=8

[j3st3r]

Maya LT is a good move. I do not know Blender well, but to me it's interface is awkward, and being frightens me a bit. I assume there is no support, and the future is not stable (not that Softimage future looks stable, but at least there is a decent support!).

The intent is quite obvious, use Maya LT and when you are up to surpass the limitation, switch to Maya. It's obvious that Maya is now the flagship product of Autodesk (in Entertainment), and I can understand it pretty well, though my love is for Softimage is unbroken since 2003. But I plan to switch to Maya, because all job advertisement is about Maya or Max. And even my employer (Crytek) is migrating from Max to Maya. So the upcoming years are Maya years, as it seems to be. Unless they make Softimage cheap, and keep all the features

[ojo3D]

But I plan to switch to Maya, because all job advertisement is about Maya or Max. And even my employer (Crytek) is migrating from Max to Maya. So the upcoming years are Maya years, as it seems to be.

Man ... that's so sad. The first software I learned was 3dsMax back in 2003.

[Nizar]

Maya LT is a good move. I do not know Blender well, but to me it's interface is awkward, and being frightens me a bit. I assume there is no support, and the future is not stable (not that Softimage future looks stable, but at least there is a decent support!).

I risk appearing like a Blender fanboy...
Yes, don't know at all blender. Why blender future is not stable? Blender future is bright (not in term declination left by ADSK). Take a bit of time doing a serious research about.
Blender stability is pretty good, TBH only two crash in the last six month. GUI is another gui, is different by Softimage and Maya, but also Maya is different by 3dsm etc. every software has different GUi, what do you expect? A softimage clone?
Here a comparative video (well done IMHO) between Maya and Blender aniamtion tools:

edit: video don't work, here the direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgXlZw8W_rU#t=21
After the first enthusiasm about this ADSK move, I cage my state about it. He can trying to take care some student or employer doesn't want leave their comfort zone and learn other software, for the rest, indie game is IMHO in other had (I think 3dsm is much more used)

[luceric]

Yes, I don't know at all Blender

don't evangelize Blender to other people on forums if you're not willing to use it yourself, imho. don't just send links and post what other people say, it's free to check it out yourself and come up with your own opinion

[Nizar]

do you refer to me?

Edit: sorry, my fault, I mean "YOU don't know blender at all"

I don't want evangelize blender, also, don't want appear like a fanboy, but J3st3r has (IMHO) a wrong statement about blender. Blender has many defects, but is not a unstable software without future, this totally wrong.

Be clear I respect J3st3r (and I like very much his art) and don't want offend in anyway

About the link, is only to show blender capabilities to J3st3r and other users, why not?

[Rez007]

@luceric

Do you guys, by chance, also check other forums/sites that are geared more toward Indie Gaming and Mobile? If you check out Fingergaming.com they have a decent thread going about MayaLT. I think those sites might give the best feedback, if that is what you are looking for, as their users are geared to that targert market.

I gave my opinion to what an Indie might be interested in (pros/cons and future ideas), but I think I may be the only Indie Developer on this site...

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

The other big thing for me it ADSK is already battling with maintaining 3 separate packages, now they are going to 4. They are also marketing it slap bang in both Softimages and 3dsmax territory. Which I am sure will not thrill either community.

Good point.