Another 3dsmax sneak peak

[bottleofram]

I'd like to see a thread about what could be changed in Maya to make better for a Softimage user's point of view..

It's like asking polar bears how can you make earth colder for them.

[iamVFX]

I'd like to see a thread about what could be changed in Maya to make better for a Softimage user's point of view..

Hotkeys editor. Softimage represent keys in a visual way, you literally see your keyboard and how your keys are mapped on it. Last time I tried to configure hotkeys in maya I end up with some sort of a bug, my keys were overridden by default ones without warning, on some russian forum i was told it was a bug on AD side and it hasn't been fixed for several years, even after submitting bug reports. That's how I switched to Softimage

[iamVFX]

The most strange thing with those Suits was the fact that all Autodesk products are not tied together. They're duck taped with some FBX scripts and that's it. Why would anyone from Max users spend their time to setup hotkeys or render settings for another package? It should be some sort of unified system, a standalone app which generates similar configurations across all M&E products really. IMO.

[pezetko]

I'd like to see a thread about what could be changed in Maya to make better for a Softimage user's point of view.. I mean if you have to bite the bullet some day and switch..

-> SI keymap, or at least visual hotkey editor.
-> Middle click everywhere to repeat latest command.
-> Checkbox to disable change of selection by clicking anywhere else then on manipulation axis in transform tools (move, rotate, scale). (Separate transform tool from selection tool like it's possible in SI). It's pretty annoying to lost all selection by missing one pixel or transform over other axis (the latest one) with middle mouse button.
-> And please make possible to map camera navigation hotkey ("Alt") to different key like "S" or "Spacebar". Pretty please

[Eugen]

@luceric:
Haven't you been a top Softimage expert yourself before you jumped ship? After all, you coded the UI libraries, FXTree, etc., right?
You should know to a good degree what SI does better than Maya, and I actually hope there has been some "technology transfer" in the meantime, because the scenario you hint at is so some degree probable. (the question will be, though, should SI users be forced to choose an alternative, why the heck should it be Maya among all 3D apps??)

What could Maya do better... a very long story ;} this should really be in another thread maybe.

Let's talk about the UI, which of course is just the tip of the iceberg.
I remember hearing you say a few years ago you are wondering why the Maya attribute editor (is this the right term?) is so slow compared to SI's PPGs.
This was before Maya's Qt port, though. Has anything changed to the better? I haven't test driven Maya for a while now... is it still the same awkward b*tch it used to be?

For a start, the Maya UI could be switchable to some text based mode, with reduced toolbars. Those multicolored icons, some of which are a very good example for very bad design, almost make my eyeballs pop, and I believe this is not only a matter of taste.
If it needs to be icons, why shouldn't they for example look like this: (link posted on the mailinglist recently)
http://icomoon.io/app/
Nice and clean. They are vector based, you can zoom in.
Btw: in SI, I find most icons ok, but there could be a better general design concept. Anti-aliased or non-anti-aliased...

You could do extensive research how the human visual cortex feels about visual clutter when you want to present information in a clean and logical manner, but actually you could as well just take a good look... ;p
I personally like the Windows 8 metro UI, by the way. Refreshing and modern. Makes the icon cemetery on an iPhone look old.


But sadly, SI devs do not seem to have much interest in UI improvements at the moment, either.
@Bellsey:
Right, the Maya hotbox and marking menus are good, I like them. I also like the 3ds max quad menus. I never understood why there's nothing comparable in SI (which is why I wrote QMenu, and Stefan the configurator for it. Both of us use it ALL the time).
You even have to beg devs every time for more menu anchor points...

Piotrek Marczak's "QuickPrimitive" tool is another intersting example of how UI enhancements could look like. I find it quite beautiful how OpenGL is used for it, although I'm not a particular fan of the icons...

This belongs in another thread as well I guess, but:
UI research and design in general is an important topic these days, since the multitouch/tablet wave is rolling now. Much potential here, let's see.

[ace63]

I have to work with Maya and Softimage on a daily basis.
Many things have been said about the Maya UI which I can confirm.
It is not really possible to map keys the way you like - it almost took me one and a half hours to
remap my keys to the way I like due to stupid naming in the hotkey editor.
Two days later all hotkeys were gone and reset to defaults because of an already named bug.
There are also several limitations to remapping keys (impossible to remap camera navigation, modifiers, etc..)
which would be ok if there was a proper key layout to begin with. My colleagues told me that you 'have to customize Maya so it works'.
Fact is you can't really customize it to fit all your needs.

More stuff:
Component selections get lost when you change objects (I have lost SO much time to this) and there are no
sticky keys. There is no hotkey which temporarily enables rotation snapping, no mousewheel increasing
soft selection radius. The list goes on and on....
I tried doing some of this myself - for some stuff it worked, for some it didn't.
You have to put so much effort into making this work at all it is not even funny. And then
you are completely lost without your settings when working on another computer.

One last thing I truly HATE about Maya is how selections work. This is so messed up it is not even funny.
All this branch/leaf/tree/component/mixed component mess is just non-intuitive and keeps breaking stuff for me.
Just make it like Softimage - it is the most intuive, fast and logical way.

[Tekano]

@luceric:
Haven't you been a top Softimage expert yourself before you jumped ship? After all, you coded the UI libraries, FXTree, etc., right?

your post was well written and lucid Eugen, and I agree entirely that it is not about taste or 'prettiness' it is literally the interface to the user. one should care about this quite a lot no? if you do not consider well about even this bit then what does that say about the rest of your user experience?

and quoting you not because I disagree, but because I personally would like to see a thread about if the old softimage developers and staff 'Jumped' or were 'pushed' away from XSI. that is much more relevant here.

polar bears.. ha!

[Hirazi Blue]

I'd like to see a thread about what could be changed in Maya to make better for a Softimage user's point of view.. I mean if you have to bite the bullet some day and switch..

So, who's fear mongering now?

Reminds me of my favorite song of 2010:

The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click
The future of Softimage is bright... click

It really is...

(Chinny and the Chipmunks, I believe)

The best way Autodesk can get people to switch to Maya is to lower the ridiculous (last time I checked & IMHO obviously) cross-grade price. Frankly, it should just cost processing fees for people on long-time Softimage subscription (again IMHO)

BELATED MODERATOR EDIT: Sorry: While I sympathize with the plight of Softimage users forced to switch to Maya, I really do not think, this is the time and place for a lengthy discussion on that specific topic. If luceric were to start a separate thread (not posting this as an aside in a thread about a "3dsmax sneak peek"), I probably would (have to) allow it. But we are - need I remind you all - primarily trying to run an "unofficial Softimage community" here, not a "How I switched to Maya" support group! - HB

[McNistor]

I think he's trolling us. I mean since he jumped into Maya's boat he's been poking at us with all kinds of needles.

[Eugen]

Component selections get lost when you change objects (I have lost SO much time to this)

Stefan has written a plugin for Maya a while ago because of that. It does different things, also remembering coponent selection. Might be worth a try.
http://www.keyvis.at/cg-tools/maya-tools/ritalin/

[Superpositivo]

...I mean if you have to bite the bullet some day and switch..

Really I'm seeing this?????....
You guys are internally debating and preparing us to the switch????....

Like it's been asked before, it's enough safe thinking all the old Si Devs have been forced to jump on Maya.
It's pretty strange how many, instead, have been gone and created togheter other things and products. Maybe they didn't accepted the jump.

Anyway, a Softimage User of course would like on any 3d product something like Softimage.

For Maya I'd like to say : "disassemble it!".
Instead :

- Render Region (a new collegue from Maya told me "nice, you can render interactively like that"... oh my!).
- Every buttons that remember the last action (whoever made that is a genius, that should be implemented on Notepad, too)
- The 3 buttons for the axes (I cannot stand to go everytime chasing the pivot for every little movement, expecially during modeling).
- At least the same selection system as SI (With the proper display that tells you what you've selected)
- ...

I could go on a bit, but I'm realizing that..wow, I'M MAKING A WISH LIST FOR MAYA!.. I've been trolled...

[Bullit]

Really I'm seeing this?????....
You guys are internally debating and preparing us to the switch????....

luceric is with Maya now. So he is here to poach everyone there.
Anyway for me i would look to Cinema4D, Houdini or even Blender first than looking at Maya.

[Maximus]

...I mean if you have to bite the bullet some day and switch..

Really I'm seeing this?????....
You guys are internally debating and preparing us to the switch????....

Like it's been asked before, it's enough safe thinking all the old Si Devs have been forced to jump on Maya.
It's pretty strange how many, instead, have been gone and created togheter other things and products. Maybe they didn't accepted the jump.

Anyway, a Softimage User of course would like on any 3d product something like Softimage.

For Maya I'd like to say : "disassemble it!".
Instead :

- Render Region (a new collegue from Maya told me "nice, you can render interactively like that"... oh my!).
- Every buttons that remember the last action (whoever made that is a genius, that should be implemented on Notepad, too)
- The 3 buttons for the axes (I cannot stand to go everytime chasing the pivot for every little movement, expecially during modeling).
- At least the same selection system as SI (With the proper display that tells you what you've selected)
- ...

I could go on a bit, but I'm realizing that..wow, I'M MAKING A WISH LIST FOR MAYA!.. I've been trolled...

Unless you have money to throw at Autodesk, i dont see Jumping something reasonable, people tend to forget that behind those 3 packages there is always the same company which in those last years produced the less amount of development and features world wide.
I dont know you people but everytime i hear "switch to maya" "jump to another package", its like go out and buy candies.
I rather give money to another company that is dedicated to their softwares, because you can say whatever you want but Autodesk isnt quite dedicated to anything if not making money and choke users. Unless you are a big studio with lots of seats and licenses. Then they might give you their attention.

Wake up everyone.

[Sil3]

There are also several limitations to remapping keys (impossible to remap camera navigation, modifiers, etc..)

I have the "S" camera Navigation shortcut in Maya 2010 (and other shortcuts) like I'm used to in Softimage, see the link:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.ph ... ostcount=5


It keeps the Alt as well, but the S behaves like the Alt.

"S" key in Maya is to make a Keyframe I remapped it to "K" just like in Soft as I did remap others keys to open the thing they call an Explorer (lol??) and also for the Graph Editor and "Render Tree"

[dwigfor]

...I mean if you have to bite the bullet some day and switch..

- Every buttons that remember the last action (whoever made that is a genius, that should be implemented on Notepad, too)..

Every program should implement the middle mouse button functionality in the Softimage UI.

[bottleofram]

...I mean if you have to bite the bullet some day and switch..

- Every buttons that remember the last action (whoever made that is a genius, that should be implemented on Notepad, too)..

Every program should implement the middle mouse button functionality in the Softimage UI.

Every floating window ever should be collapsible by double click on the title bar. Those two UI features alone make me cry a little inside whenever i use other applications.

Anyway, since we're so deep into off-topic, i'd like to ask luceric a question. You've been on maya for about a year now. Do you feel like it's internally as messy as you expected it to be or worse? I know you guys are secretive but I think you can answer this without braking any rules since we have no real way to quantify your personal expectation or judgement.