Anti-Autodesk Strategies

[luceric]

I am sorry but you are being disingenuous, what is the market for procedural FX at ICE granular level ?

To not even talk how Autodesk didn't promoted Softimage.

An application like that can't be successful by how you guys in Autodesk rate "success" .
How many artists want or have knowledge to dwell into that granular level?

Autodesk would have killed Houdini for example. For them, and by your commonly stated overall opinion Houdini is not a successful application.

So in Autodesk hands no application will have ever success with procedural FX because there isn't enough technical artists at that level.

now explain all the effort being put in Bifrost!

[luceric]

In my opinion, it's not really relevant to start complaining about some perceived lack of tutorials, tweets, or youtube videos about softimage in response to my comments about the suite opportunity. The Maya and Max users were marketed to by mails, emails, and encouraged to upgrade to the Premium Suite. There were ads on the web, in print, etc. Most of which you didn't see, or forgot by now. The sales people were given Suite sales targets to meet. They had every motivation to up-sell users to Premium Suite and make more money. It was not about selling Softimage as a general app, it's about selling the Premium Suite as a benefit to Max and Maya.
Autodesk doesn't market anything any better than that.

IMHO, it's also "time machine logic" to say it went wrong because Lagoa is "hard to use"; at that point Autodesk bought Softimage the most high profile buzzword-y particle thing, and people would have had to buy it in the first place and use it to discover that it's hard to use. There is not a single review or article there, as far as I'm aware, that's warning people against buying the Premium Suite, or a negative buzz about Lagoa. There was only accolades everywhere for Lagoa and Softimage 2011.5. It took a long time before the softimage community began to go sour on lagoa. People have forgotten the web glowing red with articles, tweets, and demos about Lagoa, even "tech of the year" type awards. There was a full campaign, including featured articles on cgsocity and fxguide. Nothing that would drive customers away.

[Rez007]

I would have really liked to see the Premium Suites take off, as like I said before, it was a great way to get Softimage in the door for studios to take a look at. However, it is relevant on "how" those Suites were marketed and the message Autodesk was trying to get across at the time. I think that is where the message was lost. When people start seeing some of Softimage's important features starting to be integrated into the core of Maya and/or Max, doesn't that start to defeat the purpose of the Premium Suite? I think when customers started to see that happening, even if it came from a 3rd party solution, they figured why get the Premium Suite when I will wait to have it integrated into my core package..."Project Geppetto" might be an example.

[Pooby]

Just, please, show me a good, Autodesk related source of tutorials for XSI and I will stop complaining. Because, I will say this, Pixologic and Sidefx destroys Autodesk Softimage Youtube Channel.

edit.. Face Robot for example, real amazing, I never understood it because I found like 4 learning videos in all internet.

Just a few months after acquisition, most (if not all) of the official XSI tutorials of the time were uploaded to the AREA. There's at least 20 pages of them. Ok, the AREA has had its fair share of criticism, but they are there and easy to find.

And if you googled 'face robot tutorial', the wiki pages does appear and there have been more than 20 videos there for years.

It sounds like your point is that autodesk really tried. Can you confirm that is your view?

[Pooby]

I am sorry but you are being disingenuous, what is the market for procedural FX at ICE granular level ?

To not even talk how Autodesk didn't promoted Softimage.

An application like that can't be successful by how you guys in Autodesk rate "success" .
How many artists want or have knowledge to dwell into that granular level?

Autodesk would have killed Houdini for example. For them, and by your commonly stated overall opinion Houdini is not a successful application.

So in Autodesk hands no application will have ever success with procedural FX because there isn't enough technical artists at that level.

now explain all the effort being put in Bifrost!

How can anyone explain all the effort being put in bifrost when it is little more than a code name for a mysterious product that is based around fluids and speculated to be a possible ICE- like system in the future.
I think it is better that YOU reveal the effort being put in bifrost . Then people have something to go on.

[Hirazi Blue]

The one thing that would really interest me is he role those directly responsible for Softtimage over the years
played in all this...Some mistakes must have been made at that level too, one might think.

[dwigfor]

Speaking of suites.... You could not buy a regular Softimage suite. You had to get Premium, unless you lived in Japan. So it was always marketed as a companion app to Maya/Max.

I think that only compounded people's perceptions that Softimage wasn't a fully capable dcc and was inferior to Max and Maya..

And I really wish I could find that pie chart that demonstrated the different uses for the programs in the suites. I really found that to be a kick-to-the-balls to Softimage. So, why did Blur pick up Softimage for animation and rigging, when it's only benefit was particles?

I thought marketing was supposed to promote products, rather than knock them down. Half the time I was glad it wasn't promoted, since it was only referred to as a companion app. Perhaps positive marketing of softimage would have drawn negative light on rigging and animation in max? Hush hush about non-linear!!

[owei]

I heard, that Softimage sold so much copies like never before, right after the acquisition. Maybe Softimages marketing was good at that time?? And well, it did not come from AD...just think about it.

But no, AD did an awesome job in marketing Softimage. Just the stupid useres did not catch it...and it was Avid´s fault, that they could not reverse the curve! And we Softies are paranoid idiots, because we always complained about the lack of marketing and the not mentioning Softimage anywhere..that perception was soooo wrong! And we also did not see all the billions of ads over the web and in print everywhere...and the big, big efforts of sales teams at fairs to show off Softimage on the both with demos and making ofs...and we also did not see the army of sales guys running through all the 3d companies in the world demoing Softimage to Maya and Max people...AD did so much and well! At least, and we have to accept that, Softimage is crap, that´s why nobody bought it...Don´t you see that, guys..?
So, I would really recommend to stop those discussions. It´s ridiculous. AD had a plan for Softimage, to have NO plan for Softimage. AD is an evil company that does not care about users nor about software at all. I again recommend you employed AD guys to look for an other place to work. Nobody will believe you anymore. And really I can hardly bear your writing anymore...We all believed you too long and now we are f*cked. We closed our eyes and took a sleep. Our fault. Looking for other alternative software was not necessary. And now a hole industry is struggling to stay alive. Thank you so much AD...

[Bullit]

now explain all the effort being put in Bifrost!

What effort? Autodesk tells not much except generalities and what is true today, tomorrow can be lie. Bifrost could be another Lagoa. One off effort...

We just have imagine what would be of Softimage if the last 3 years were proper versions today.
Even despite the stagnation of last 3 versions momentum was being build by the quality work done with it.
Which would have increased more if they were better versions.

The suites while meritorious were a biased effort that lend to a bad feedback system. It seems that on propose Autodesk bureaucracy didn't wanted to know who wanted Softimage as the first software. Except in Japan.

Concerning tutorials, quantity wasn't a problem, but tutorials quality and softimage help wasn't good for the knowledge increase that system like ICE needs.
When a new more complex machine appears, instructions need to be updates to that level of complexity.
Making ICE tutorials at level of a Particle Flow project doesn't cut it. Because no one will change from Particle Flow to ICE with that.

My advice is that Autodesk goes 70 years to the past, to WW2 and check the manuals of airplanes, weapons systems...

[Nizar]

So ADSK is convinced they marketed softimage at the best.
Is a shame the entire world did not notice

[Bellsey]

Just, please, show me a good, Autodesk related source of tutorials for XSI and I will stop complaining. Because, I will say this, Pixologic and Sidefx destroys Autodesk Softimage Youtube Channel.

edit.. Face Robot for example, real amazing, I never understood it because I found like 4 learning videos in all internet.

Just a few months after acquisition, most (if not all) of the official XSI tutorials of the time were uploaded to the AREA. There's at least 20 pages of them. Ok, the AREA has had its fair share of criticism, but they are there and easy to find.

And if you googled 'face robot tutorial', the wiki pages does appear and there have been more than 20 videos there for years.

It sounds like your point is that autodesk really tried. Can you confirm that is your view?

From my point of view as a lowly AE, and the geo I work in, I would say yes. Of course the measure of success will be different for some.
Personally, I'll admit that some things could of been better, but then hindsight is a wonderful thing and alot is/was beyond my control.

[Letterbox]

So ADSK is convinced they marketed softimage at the best.
Is a shame the entire world did not notice

Nizar, I agree with luceric "time machine" logic, of what was done is long since past and there aint no turning the clock back.

But you honestly cant blame Autodesk for not doing tutorials nor the world not noticing.

Jennifer Goldfinch did contact us and after all of Joe Saltzman's tutorials were complete, then we put out all of the certified training material.

That was a huge amount, and it was incredibly well received at the time (and still is downloaded daily, even after the 'news').

That material did reach people from all corners of the globe except the Vatican (i think they use blender), we gave up counting counties after we hit 64.

That material did reach many companies who either use it internally or gave it to new hire's, and places of study who use it for their students..

With hundreds of thousands of downloads, and god know how many terabytes over the years, I would say that it was probably the best direct marketing to end users, students and potential clients that Softimage has ever seen.

If one wants to use "time machine" logic, and apportion blame to Autodesk, then it would be that they never capitalized on it enough and converted interest into sales. Those sales might have made internal perceptions of Softimage different, who knows?

But that's all in the past and those days have gone. While it's important to learn from it, it's only too clear "the future" is what’s important now and that should be everyone's major concern.

Given that, remember the car-dealer analogy with whomever you deal with, in that; They are only ever interested in you UNTIL they get you're money. And use it to your advantage.

I wish you all the best, in what ever road you take and what ever application takes you there.

[McNistor]

[luceric]

now explain all the effort being put in Bifrost!

How can anyone explain all the effort being put in bifrost when it is little more than a code name for a mysterious product that is based around fluids and speculated to be a possible ICE- like system in the future.
I think it is better that YOU reveal the effort being put in bifrost . Then people have something to go on.

Fair enough, but bifrost node-based tech was demoed at last siggraph already.

the video is here and it starts at around the 8 minute mark
http://area.autodesk.com/ooyala/show/Nm ... srADceia-Z

[Bullit]

What to say about what Autodesk understands about ICE when one them in Softimage Mailing List asks this question:

Do you guys think there is a top list of nodes in ICE and compounds you all use that cover 80% of what you do with the toolset?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... IC2qXGWC3k

[grendizer]

I'm not a marketing specialist but I guess if you want to promote a 3D app, you have to make people dream. For example a video on how XSI was used in the movie "300". Making of's. XSI banners on websites. Creating a buzz areound XSI...
Promoting a Maya suite , hoping that people would start Softimage to check how it works is certainly not enough.