Yeah!! Hail to Softimage, winner of three awards at VES ...

[MauricioPC]

I'm still wondering how people model in Max without proper camera based selection. Must be real pain.

sorry, what's camera based selection? do you mean the preselection highlight in the tweak tool?

I didn't understand also.

I already told you XSI has "screen space" translate (by clicking in the middle of the gizmo, not picking a mode like "local" ) and "edge constrain" as well by using the tweak tool 'M'. They don't work exactly like in 3dsMax but that's not a bad thing necessarily.
You can also set the Plane ref to a picked object aligned to the screen by using the small x,y,z in the top left near the eye icon and set the move tool to plane or ref. A bit more convoluted, but if you really insist on having the gizmo also in the screen space, then this is one way to achieve that.

A subjective thing is the fact that I model a lot faster in XSI than I was in 3dsMax. What is not subjective however is that regardless of what you're used to work with, the tools are there waiting for you to discover them and get accustomed to.

p.s. I agree with what you're saying about 3dsMax. It's slow and buggy as hell and it crashes out of nowhere. They should change the name to 3dsCrash.

Do you recommend a good tutorial for getting to know the Softimage modeling tools? Because most of the tutorials (the good ones) about modeling are for 3ds Max and some for Maya. I watch and I try to replicate the thinking of the author, but than I stall when I can't find the same tools in Softimage.

My 2 pence... think Softimage modeling is much better than 3Dsmax except the bend - that is the reason there is a plugin called agbend -
https://www.si-community.com/forum/v ... f=9&t=1549
For the most recent in Softimage modeling advances see this about 2012 SAP see the smooth edge loop specially
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/marks/go ... _5_is_here

The problem is that most Softimage modeling tutorials are basic. And I want to understand the workflow, so I'm doing tutorials from Max or Maya (there's lots of it). So I'm still deciding the "best" software for me. Since I want to work with FX, I was between Max or Maya. But for personal work, Softimage can handle fine (me and my wife are developing ideas for some short-animated stories for kids). But where to find good character modeling tutorials for Softimage? There isn't. You need for Maya or Max and than translate the workflow to Softimage, and that's when I get in trouble because I still didn't master the modeling tools.

[Nox]

sorry, what's camera based selection? do you mean the preselection highlight in the tweak tool?

No, here is simple example. Let's say we want to select couple of faces here:



in XSI/Maya/Modo it works as expected.

But in 3ds Max we get this:



Because Max ignores faces based on their normals, but not actual visibility to camera. Now imagine working with complicated model or mesh with a lot of polygon islands... You would need to hide parts of the model or constantly deselect unwanted components, either way it's clunky, tedious and waste of time.

XSI uses proper approach called raycast, probably because it casts a ray from camera to check component visibility (raycast in shaded mode option). In Maya it's called camera based selection.

But where to find good character modeling tutorials for Softimage? There isn't.

Check this one

BTW, Graphite Modeling Tools panel Max is so slow because it's UI is based on .NET DevExpress bloatware controls which is ridiculuos idea. But you can bind most used tools to hotkeys and hide GMT panel... forever ;]

[luceric]

That's a big WTF.

[xsi_fanatic]

Politics? Fxguide is pimping other products like Houdini, Cinema4D, Mari and Nuke. They just post and link whatever they like and how they like it.

Sheesh ! Politics, conspiracies, call it whatever you want. The fact is: Softimage has more potential than Maya and Max, but AD won't market it aggressively for obvious reasons that doesn't need mentioning. Worse comes to worse, it's not hard for AD to pay FXguide to have them NOT post Softimage in their listings. Call me a crazy if you like, but that's my belief and I'm gonna stick by it.

Well it is to be biased toward XSI here, but talking about potential, it is not like that. As a matter a fact Maya has much more potential than XSI. It is not that AD decided blindly, obviously that they did some research and results shown that it is best (read more profitable) to push Maya. There are many obvious, already mentioned, reasons. We need to be realistic here.

SreckoM,

Can you please explain how is it that Maya has more potential than Softimage ? I'd really like to know.

[mc_axe]

SI is frozen 6+ years in a icy tomb, and still competitive.
thats the truth.

[Eugen]

cr*p... timeout... sorry, will try to repost.
Ok...

Raycast selection sucks in 3ds max, whereas in XSI it's very good. I even used it to remove duplicate overlapping subcurves - in shaded mode, only the first curve will be selected.

Working in screen space - use the little yellow box in the middle of the transform manipulator. Disadvantage: you cannot contrain to x or y, can you.

Bend deformer... a bad joke. As has been said, use agBend.

Symmetry workflow: ok in XSI, if you just deform (use symmetry map and SYM mode), but when changing topology, 3ds max wins, because you can work down in the modifier stack and see the end result simultaneously. In XSI, you still need to disable/enable operators above the point where you want to apply changes.
As Luc-Eric once mentioned, this wouldn't even be difficult to implement, but these times AD focuses mainly on ICE related stuff (even the new modeling tools like cap, thickness, etc. are ICE, and have problems with UVs).

And that's the point where the (well deserved) flaming of Autodesk starts, for not caring much about anything else than just ICE... it's how they want to cram it into an awkward cross-application workflow - as the much cited particle plugin - no, nothing has changed. (3ds max, send to Softimage: everything is transferred. Softimage, send to 3ds max: only a pointcloud gets across.)

Side-rant: what about the users who don't need ICE, because they don't do much FX??
If it was even somewhat worry-free... I wanted to use it recently for distributing some bloody flowers over a meadow. Needed to look into a tutorial to figure how to emit from a polygon cluster... Then, delays, crashes, and more crashes. In the end I did it traditionally with instanced hair instead - worked fine.
ICE might be powerful, but it is often still not really 'user-friendly', and it is somewhat bolted onto XSI, not integral part of it.
It's almost becoming a 'parallel universe' in the application, and there are still plenty of problems on the interface of ICE and the 'old core' (in lack of a better word).

Getting quite off-topic, sorry. But seeing all the good stuff that makes using XSI a joy just left to rot is so lame, and I needed to vent some.

[SreckoM]

SreckoM,

Can you please explain how is it that Maya has more potential than Softimage ? I'd really like to know.

1. Much larger user base. This alone is enough.
2. Works great on all OS.
3. Better SDK, that opens Maya more to customization than XSI. Python is much deeply integrated than in XSI (pythonQT for example).

Here I wrote few things what I think AD considered. Bare in mind that this is not much important for us artists. But we and AD do not live in same world.

Looking from artist pov, there a few things that I think are better in Maya:
1. PaintFX
2. NURBS
3. Viewport 2.0
4. nCloth

But of course there are lot more things that are better in XSI. But those things are not important for AD, as all these things will/should be fixed and developed in future. Question is what will be profit after that investment. And that is why I say that Maya has more potential than XSI, from AD point of view. Not ours.

[Eugen]

1. Much larger user base. This alone is enough.

Don't envy them. It's not 'enough'. It's just the way things went, lucky for Maya. Like Windows in the old days... everbody used it - didn't mean it was good.

2. Works great on all OS.

Windows (8) became a stable, mature, highly compatible, and even nice to look at system. It's the least of my problems.
Not much left to wish for (at the time being), except it being freeware...

3. Better SDK, that opens Maya more to customization than XSI. Python is much deeply integrated than in XSI (pythonQT for example).

Granted. 3ds max has the same advantage.

Here I wrote few things what I think AD considered. Bare in mind that this is not much important for us artists. But we and AD do not live in same world.

Looking from artist pov, there a few things that I think are better in Maya:
1. PaintFX

In theory, you could build such a system in ICE - easy or not.

2. NURBS

Played with them recently. Strange workflow... I don't like them much.

3. Viewport 2.0
4. nCloth

But of course there are lot more things that are better in XSI. But those things are not important for AD, as all these things will/should be fixed and developed in future. Question is what will be profit after that investment. And that is why I say that Maya has more potential than XSI, from AD point of view. Not ours.

[xsi_fanatic]

SreckoM,

Can you please explain how is it that Maya has more potential than Softimage ? I'd really like to know.

1. Much larger user base. This alone is enough.
2. Works great on all OS.
3. Better SDK, that opens Maya more to customization than XSI. Python is much deeply integrated than in XSI (pythonQT for example).

Here I wrote few things what I think AD considered. Bare in mind that this is not much important for us artists. But we and AD do not live in same world.

Looking from artist pov, there a few things that I think are better in Maya:
1. PaintFX
2. NURBS
3. Viewport 2.0
4. nCloth

But of course there are lot more things that are better in XSI. But those things are not important for AD, as all these things will/should be fixed and developed in future. Question is what will be profit after that investment. And that is why I say that Maya has more potential than XSI, from AD point of view. Not ours.

The only things I could agree with you on are NURBS and Better SDK. The rest of the points you mentioned are all a matter of quantity versus quality, that doesn't bring much to the table. The only reason Maya has a much larger user base is because they market it more aggressively. Getting the job done in Maya takes a lot more man power than Softimage requires. That alone says a lot in my opinion.

[mc_axe]

Even a small team can bring SI in the top of AD, in terms of capabilities.
SI like maya are platforms. They have expandability on the architecture they can do almost anything.
But maya ISNT ICE rdy. Node programming,, is a hell of a job to implement. Thats not gona happen.
Today we see only small changes.The old days of serius competition have been long gone.
Thats why SI can be top with the less effort.


small amzing changes in SI can be done to catch up thats a small team job. but...

..Improoving ICE capabilities, or expand compatibility to other platforms, or insert brushed deformers modeling or brushed edits in general, or add some parametric features to polygonal objects on demand.

Or introduce brand new techs that dont exist NOWHERE ..
thats a diferent story.. this is the key.. to blow off the comp. The core features.
but who wants SI to blow off.. 3ds and maya.. with one or 2 years of serius development..?

[McNistor]

But maya ISNT ICE rdy. Node programming,, is a hell of a job to implement. Thats not gona happen.

You sure? Cause they took the former XSI team or at least part of it, put them on Maya dev. team, bought Naiad and now who knows what they're cooking.

[csaez]

Software war? again? come on guys, we can do better ;)

[MauricioPC]

Gotta love the internet ... rumors of a leaked beta. A guy saying that Softimage 2015 has progressive rendering now. And apparently Maya with BiFrost.

I couldn't find anything but I got curious.

If that's truth, I may have faith in Softimage getting improved! They wouldn't invest on something they would kill. Let's hope the rumors are correct.

[angus_davidson]

Given that this is all rumour I will say this with a pinch of Salt.

However should it be true and given that we have redshift, vray and arnold as great plugin render platform.

Why the Mothery duck of all the things they need to sort out in softimage do we get something that we seriously dont need. Renderer changes are so far down the list as to be invisible except with binoculars.

*I need tea*

[Hirazi Blue]

Renderer changes are so far down the list as to be invisible

Renderer changes often have the benefit that most of the work is done by nVidia/Mental Images, not Autodesk...

[Eugen]

The list of things that need attention is sheer endlessly. Like in politics: the really sore spots don't get the attention... we will have all grey beards (or hair) when all the wishes came true... or already be a case for the undertaker... ;p

mental ray progressive... possible already with CtrlGhost, right?
However, as a fallback option it might still make sense these days, so no harm done if it gets some love. Been a while anyway. After all, it's integration and choice of shaders is great, and 3.12 will have FG with GPU support:
http://elementalray.wordpress.com/2013/ ... 3-12-beta/
What we can expect from that remains to be seen, but at least it is under active development.
Redshift, although swiftly developed, is not feature complete, and e.g. procedurals are yet to be tackled (planned, though). Arnold is too expensive for many. VRay's integration is not yet completely worry-free, too.
And: mental ray is not even particularly slow anymore - if you don't make certain mistakes (like I did recently).