Adobe jump in the cloud

[Falam]

Well, this whole new scheme by Adobe will no doubt pave the way for each and every possible software company to start implementing the same policy, disregarding the wants and needs of their customers completely.

I must disagree a bit with this statement, more precise with the point about disregarding the wants and needs of their customers. If people indeed want something else they (Adobe in this case) will change, revert back to the way things were or implementing something else, because that would translate into less $. If they won't change it then it means they're happy with how much they sell and that implies people are happy.
The "no choice" argument doesn't do it for me. If you say you have no choice because you're not prepared to give up on your life style, possibly lowering your standard of life if you wouldn't use their product, then you already have made a choice. No s/w company knocks at your door with the shotgun barrel.

Edit: My point is, people complain and they still buy their stuff and I'm not talking about Adobe only. This to me seems like a psychotic behavior of today's consumer.

People do boycott products and companies, I don't doubt that people will boycott Adobe because of this measure, you'd be surprised what people have boycotted.

[xsisupport]

Well, this whole new scheme by Adobe will no doubt pave the way for each and every possible software company to start implementing the same policy, disregarding the wants and needs of their customers completely. I am somewhat surprised Adobe beat Autodesk to it. And once Autodesk catches up, as they are bound to, sooner rather later, I will have to find myself a new hobby. I hear stamp collecting is very nice...

As for Photoshop alternatives: I currently use a combination of Photoline and the GIMP. Photoline mainly for its ability to handle more than 8 bit images, but apparently the GIMP has an upcoming update planned enabling it to handle 16 bit images. So Photoline might eventually become obsolete in my workflow (although its a nice enough, good value for money kind of software).

Doesn't it depend on whether or not you ever plan to upgrade?
I didn't price it out, but I would think that if you never plan to upgrade, not even in five or more years from now, then the subscription model is going to cost you more.
But if you do plan to periodically upgrade, then I would think there might be a break-even point, a number of years between upgrades where the new subscription model isn't more expensive.

[Falam]

There's two camps, one who support it, the other who don't. For those that support it and are very sure of them-self, lets give those in that camp two to three years to see the effect and if anyone is willing to log the discussions, I can guarantee a change of tune in that time.

[mihaiNL]

+1 - I had written a long response but it was a bit aggressive. I didn't appreciate being patted on the head "one day you'll grow up and become a faceless corporation too". We started Fabric specifically because we wanted to work in a way we know can work - even at scale.

I'm sorry what I said was interpreted in such an extreme way. I didn't say you go from "developers and customers in one big happy family" to "faceless corporation". I responded to the, in my opinion, wrong idea that this relationship is entirely up to how you as developers work and communicate with users. I don't think it is. The problem can come instead also from the customers. Especially after your user base grows beyond a certain point, who want both developers to keep talking to them constantly and make them feel like part of this nice family, and on the other hand are of the opinion that they are always right -"I paid you something = my opinion is always valid". So the mood may change, not because YOU changed. I mentioned all that because ofcourse it's nice to have a more personal relationship with the developers. But I can also understand why this can change, and respect that. I'm not going to complain and feel their work is not as good as before. I have no less respect for them or their work. It would seem egotistical for me to do otherwise. Just trying to stay as objective as I can....

[Hirazi Blue]

Doesn't it depend on whether or not you ever plan to upgrade?
I didn't price it out, but I would think that if you never plan to upgrade, not even in five or more years from now, then the subscription model is going to cost you more.
But if you do plan to periodically upgrade, then I would think there might be a break-even point, a number of years between upgrades where the new subscription model isn't more expensive.

You're right, probably (I haven't done the math either), as I currently am not customer there. But in general this kind of scheme has one important downside to me (apart from its requirement to get the workstation online even periodically - but that would merely be a hassle to me, not undoable as such), is the fact that, as far as I can tell, you'll lose your usage rights for the software the day you stop paying the respective company a subscription fee. Now, however, you buy usage rights on a perpetual basis, i.e. you can still use the product after you stop paying subscription. To professsionals all these considerations probably do not apply, to me as a hobbyist something like that is of some consideration/importance...
;)

[Nox]

The most funny thing is when people who have something like PS CS5 say: „Oh, Creative Cloud is bad, I'm switching to GIMP!” when even PS 7 is better than any GIMP in years to come.

Wake up, the age of innovation is long gone. Master current tools, don't hope for magic button in future... Well, at least from big companies.

[Pancho]

Hi Steve,

I think it is not about the money. It is really about that companies are able to force you into business schemes you would never, even in your dreams, agree to. This kind of dependency is rather unhealthy. A personal relationship in which one party can quit at any point as he/she doesn't suit the demands any more is self destructive to the weaker part. With Adobe it'll be the same, they can quit at any time. Look in the games industry. Some players complained about the way EA was collecting data with Origin and about other things. EA quit their accounts. Even if they legally bought the software, they weren't able to play it anymore.

The horrible point is, that we hardly have a chance to not use Adobe software, as there isn't a real alternative on the market. Unlike all the pooping up external renderers, there aren't any other professional PS or AE programs.

And that sucks big time. And I doubt Autodesk will behave any differently.

[FabricPaul]

+1 - I had written a long response but it was a bit aggressive. I didn't appreciate being patted on the head "one day you'll grow up and become a faceless corporation too". We started Fabric specifically because we wanted to work in a way we know can work - even at scale.

I'm sorry what I said was interpreted in such an extreme way. I didn't say you go from "developers and customers in one big happy family" to "faceless corporation". I responded to the, in my opinion, wrong idea that this relationship is entirely up to how you as developers work and communicate with users. I don't think it is. The problem can come instead also from the customers. Especially after your user base grows beyond a certain point, who want both developers to keep talking to them constantly and make them feel like part of this nice family, and on the other hand are of the opinion that they are always right -"I paid you something = my opinion is always valid". So the mood may change, not because YOU changed. I mentioned all that because ofcourse it's nice to have a more personal relationship with the developers. But I can also understand why this can change, and respect that. I'm not going to complain and feel their work is not as good as before. I have no less respect for them or their work. It would seem egotistical for me to do otherwise. Just trying to stay as objective as I can....

Thanks for the clarification - that makes more sense I think when you describe development as 'seat of the pants' it's bound to rub us up the wrong way - we prefer to call it Agile ;)

There's a book called The Innovator's Dilemma that cites what you describe as a major problem for companies i.e. becoming a prisoner to your existing customers. I maintain that people are much happier if you tell them 'these are our priorities, these other things are going to have to wait' rather than blow smoke up their ass (depends on their preferences).

[benoit81]

Unfortunately the whole "cloud thing" do not bring any equity between users :
- for US : Annual plan is 49.99 USD/month
- in Euro zone : 61.49 Euro/month
According to today's USD/Euro change, it's 60% cheaper to buy Adobe CC in the US...

Adobe, just like most US or Japan companies do not notice that 1.3 USD = 1 Euro.
Europe is 38 % of Autodesk revenues (1st geographic revenue, http://gfxspeak.com/2012/08/23/autodesk-execution-challenges-lead-to-flat-second-quarter/).

And you know what? European customer can not buy their license in US. I do not know why??

[Nox]

You can buy retail in US and use in Europe (Adobe products).

Dunno about cloud.

[Pancho]

As far as I know you can't. In the license agreement you agree to not use it in any other country except from the one you bought it in. Think Steve mentioned it somewhere.

[Nox]

That's not true You can call Adobe support to check it out.

[Pancho]

Ah, you were talking about Adobe. Sorry, I meant Autodesk.

[Nizar]

Seems there is a lot of confusion, and Creative Cloud is a very bad name. The only thing in cloud now is the license system, you don't need to be connected constantly but software requiring license checking one time per month. So the only difference now is the new license system, the software run upon your machine and not into a server, the some for data files, all in your machine. What disappear is the old offline license activation. If before you was a license purchaser, now you are a license tenant. I don't know if I'll like it, atm no, I don't like at all and cannot see any advantage in this subtle but significant cage, but I think part of my diffidence is a natural resistance to changes.

However this "big" move (only a different new license agreement) make me more interested in open software.

[Bullit]

You cannot access your files without giving money each month to Adobe for your whole life.
That is the gist of it. Sooner or later they will take a big hit. Everyone here is searching for alternatives, not in a hurry because what we have will still work for years.

[Nizar]

Totally agree with you, my point is "Creative Cloud" is a bad name, there is nothing "cloud" in this suite, only disappear the usual license system.

Another worse point, IMO, is now with clients forced to be sticky with your software the development rate will slowing (and in adobe products don't appear so fast or consistent), a company is poor stimulated to develop new functions or optimize without competitors, now, without the risk of lost clients situation will be worse.

Also, don't agree with the "now is cheaper" idea. Buy a license, and upgrade it year after year (if you want upgrade) is more convenient.

Hope Autodesk don't apply this cloud idea too fast, give me the time to grab 2015 release so can interrupt my subscription in time.