Windows 8

[dwigfor]

the start button, gone.
What Cintiq do you use ?

If you really need start button back on desktop, you can download an app Start8 (I think I read $5)

I think I have original cintiq 21".

[Falam]

the start button, gone.
What Cintiq do you use ?

If you really need start button back on desktop, you can download an app Start8 (I think I read $5)

I think I have original cintiq 21".

I have to get Windows8 more customized, transferring files is nice you get a visual cue on when it's done and how fast the transfer is going. I want to get a Cintiq 22HD they are expensive, good thing about buying one of these is you don't need a tablet for a long, long time

[origin]

Particularly on how this new UI elements (corners, sensitive areas, charm bar, etc.) play on a multi monitor setup.

I'm also curious if they've improve Snap to work with multimonitors. At work, I use multimonitor with a Cintiq. Unfortunately in Windows7, I can't snap on the sides between my monitors.

snap to sides where monitors touch is working on win7 (not perfectly but works), in win8 its not working at all. But to be fair the overall experience with dragging windows along monitors, resizing them, playing games + using other apps on second monitor feels more fluid, faster.

[PrvtHudson]

the start button, gone.
What Cintiq do you use ?

If you really need start button back on desktop, you can download an app Start8 (I think I read $5)

I think I have original cintiq 21".

I added shortcuts to the new Start Screen and added the Windows key as a mouse macro for easy access. It is fast and facilitates grouping of shortcuts. You can add anything as a Start Screen item.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/how-to-shutdo ... -one-click

[SvalinnAsgard]

Originally, I had no intention of upgrading to Windows 8. As a desktop user since the early 90s, I really cannot stand metro, but the $15 upgrade was too much to pass up. I have been using Softimage 2013 SP1 x64 on Windows 8 Pro for a few days now. Here is my opinion, both on Windows 8 and running SI under it:

Cons:
Metro--it just does not work with a mouse and keyboard. Being able to move many overlapping windows around with an accurate pointing device and a lot of screenspace is why I have been a loyal Windows user since Windows 95. It makes sense, it is productive, and it is very intuitive and comfortable. Metro takes all of that away. Even if your PC is touch enabled, I still find touch itself to be a step backwards. Can you imagine doing retopology work with your grubby fingertips?
Over simplification--not just with metro, but a lot of the traditional Windows UI has been over simplified starting in XP. Windows 8 takes it to a whole new level with ribbons and fluff everywhere. Hiding options and taking functionality away is the norm now. More and more, Windows has been shifting from a poweruser's OS to a grandma-friendly OS. Great for grandma, bad for those of us who actually use computers and gave Microsoft their success. Metro of course is the epitome of over simplification however. I tried running the Music app and my screen was instantly taken over by Justin Bieber and other untalented artists that I would never be caught dead listening to. Literally, its just pictures scrolling the background with a big giant play button in the center. Never again.
Taking power from the user--this one is big with me, and it all started in Vista. User Account Control and administrator rights just infuriate me to no end. While they can be disabled, you never truly own every file in your computer. I absolutely hate having to take ownership and jump through hoops to change system files. Windows 8 adds to this by forcing people to use the metro start screen, never giving one the power to switch it off. The options for metro apps are pathetic at best, it is obviously a "Microsoft knows what is best for you" approach and I greatly dislike that.
Ugly classic desktop--when XP was introduced, MS decided it would be good to make the GUI as ugly as possible by only updating some areas. Vista and 7 really added to this with Aero. Go take a look at the disk management tools and you will see what I mean. Windows 8 starts to add bits of metro on top of this--i.e. the file type association prompt, which just makes it even less uniform and clean looking. Metro itself is actually very visually appealing, much better than Luna and Aero, but not when it is mixed in with bits of Windows 3.1.
Pen feedback--cannot be disabled in Windows 8, but this is likely a bug. Very annoying for us stylus users.

But the biggest con of all, for me right now, is that Softimage (maybe even all 3D apps) cause my computer to hard freeze after extended (hours) use. I am forced to restart and I lose unsaved work. Now I am sure this issue will be resolved since Windows 8 is brand new.

Pros:
Performance--there is no doubt Windows 8 is faster than 7. It is about time Microsoft cut the RAM usage of Windows, and they did in Windows 8. Everything feels a bit faster and snappier, especially the boot time. Softimage performs beautifully... until it makes my computer hard freeze. Game and 3D performance is at least what it was in 7.
Hardware support--like all new versions of Windows, Microsoft does a good job of supporting new types of hardware. Got to hand it to them considering how many different types of devices are out there. I commend them for being early adopters of 64bit support.
Graphics API support--I like Microsoft's continued support of new APIs like DirectX 11. I think Windows 8 has DirectX 11.1.
Metro looks very nice--The simple colors and clean lines look good compared to Aero, but while it may be the best looking UI Microsoft ever built, its lack of functionality makes it a big failure.
Better keyboard shortcut support--the addition of many handy shortcuts, as well as enhancements to old ones (like print screen saving files now) are very nice.

Conclusion:
I would say, if you stick with the classic desktop and avoid metro, Windows 8 is quite nice. Softimage and performance intensive programs run really good, and even though SI brings my computer down after awhile, I know that will be fixed soon enough. Metro is a disaster sadly, but at least it only gets in your face in the start screen (and that can be disabled with 3rd party programs). Despite this, I am considering using XP 64 for productivity and keeping 8 for games and DX11 viewing.

I am interested in hearing if anyone else is experiencing a hard freeze after using SI for awhile?

[bottleofram]

Thanks for that analysis, SvalinnAsgard.

re: Taking power from the user

This is big for me and i'm in complete agreement here. It is not the problem they try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, it's the fact they seem all too eager to force it on everyone. And that's just unreasonable. Everything-is-full-screen paradigm is great for tablets - and similar low-power machines - but it's pure insanity on a desktop. So when you know your "working class" people, your enterprise, will not be leaving desktop in a foreseeable future, and they are your longstanding and loyal customers, why disrespect them? It's insane.

Talking to a friend about this, he said Microsoft actually mentioned Autodesk applications on their Build conference a few days ago. And sure enough, there's a moment at about 51mins where he demonstrate how a developer like Autodesk fits into this world... And the demonstration is laughable. It boils down to a bit of technobabble about the simplest application AD sells. Sketchbook. Yes... very insightful indeed.

Glad to hear performance has improved, though, and that most things work without much trouble. Not so thrilled about the freezing but lots of things go public before they are polished, Microsoft will not be an exception.

In any case, we stuck with XP and we will probably stick with w7 for a long time but it will be interesting to see how this new metrofied windows era develops.

[SvalinnAsgard]

Yeah, I get the feeling they focused on Sketchbook because it is probably the only Autodesk product that can be used with fingertips... to make finger paintings? Do touch devices even have pressure sensitivity? Microsoft avoids 3D and development oriented programs like the plague because they know the users of such software see no value in their current business strategy.

After posting the above, I was curious about how XP 64 compared against 8 64. Let me say, a stripped (and I mean stripped, no firewall, sec center, ui effects, or any other garbage) fully updated XP with the latest drivers just runs circles around any newer Windows. It seems faster and, when Luna is destroyed, the interface is very nice and uniform. When XP is stripped down to its core, you can see the real Windows, the product of years of engineering and refinement, not this rushed poorly designed nonsense we see today.

I am sorry, but this will always look better to me. XP for productivity and work, 8 for presentation and gaming I say. Though once all the issues are ironed out of 8, I may return to it as my full time OS (with a 3rd party start menu of course).

Also, the hard freeze may just be an issue with my hardware setup and Windows 8, but I know for sure that under Windows 7 and XP I never hard froze ever.

EDIT: Well now here is an interesting development. It turns out I was wrong about XP being faster--it only felt faster on the surface. I ran a benchmark on both versions of Windows, XP and 8. Even stripped to the core, XP scored less overall than Windows 8:

Windows 8


Windows XP

[origin]

One more thing, you can't disable pen feedback when using wacom tablet, none of w7 tricks work..........

[j3st3r]

The price is really tempting, I'm going to purchase a license, but does all application run well? Python? Etc. I have a slight fear, but I have curiosity as well....

[origin]

I bought it but kept w7 on separate drive...
all programs Ive tried works.
There is fucking selection lag bug on mid/hipoly meshes on my ati tho...and 3ds max viewport speed is 1/20 of what I get on w7 (unworkable)...tested on archviz production scene that takes 15 gb of ram with over 6000 objects.
On other hand multitasking is great...I'm just rendering a scene that takes half of my ram (20gb) and all cpu and still system is very fluid, I can browse net, play games etc...

[gustavoeb]

its 3ds max, it is suposed to be unworkable

[luceric]

I bought it but kept w7 on separate drive...
all programs Ive tried works.
There is fucking selection lag bug on mid/hipoly meshes on my ati tho...and 3ds max viewport speed is 1/20 of what I get on w7 (unworkable)...tested on archviz production scene that takes 15 gb of ram with over 6000 objects.
On other hand multitasking is great...I'm just rendering a scene that takes half of my ram (20gb) and all cpu and still system is very fluid, I can browse net, play games etc...

did you install graphic drivers from the manufacturer's web site?

[origin]

yes, tried many drivers including betas.
Simple example: sphere subdivided to 128k tris, activate poly sel mode, zoom in so sphere fits viewport, quickly drag mouse across screen - result: half of sphere polys are selected.
Activating edge rect selection and dragging a rect = xsi hangs for copules of seconds :<
On other hand orbiting around 8mil tri zbrush model - > 300fps

[Fer]

Did yo check this trick
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option= ... 8d763ba58e

I had the same problem with recent ATI driver, after this, it run like it should.

[Falam]

I don't run Windows8 on the same box I use Softimage. My guess is SP1 will be released by next year, for some bugs you have to wait.

[sonictk]

One more thing, you can't disable pen feedback when using wacom tablet, none of w7 tricks work..........

This is something I'm actually very interested in finding out more about. Does win 8 still have the tablet pc input services rubbish? Most people don't even know you can uninstall these components in win vista/7 and it is almost crucial to do so if you want absolute lag-free response from your Wacom...