Price change imminent?

[Hirazi Blue]

I will admit that it was somewhat unfair, I'm a little bit work-up about this. However this phrase wasn't specifically directed at you. The lack of understanding can be seen on the mailing list and other places as well. I commend you specifically to take some time to get yourself "out here" (i.e. in threads like this), where other employees fail to do so. I think, however, that there is a fine line between "understanding" and "sympathizing" ("not giving a toss") and I said Autodesk employees lacked understanding, not necessarily "sympathy". Understand that I didn't want to offend you personally. I was just sort of "sticking it to the man". If I did offend you, sorry.

That's all folks...

[Nizar]

This is very unfair and also somewhat judgemental about us simply not giving a toss, when in fact we do. Yes you are correct that some options are cheaper, but I believe its wrong to compare two different options and products and state that one is cheaper when they don't even offer the same levels of service.

Ok, thanks for your reply, don't convince me totally but can see your point of view.

It might still be "very" unfair, but I specifically wrote "understanding", not "empathy/sympathy" (which is what "giving a toss" hints at, AFAIK) and this wasn't just directed at you, BTW. But I am willing to admit, that it was slightly unfair... I'm just really so angry at the situation... (as I might have to stop using a beloved software). Sorry, didn't want to offend you personally...

Why stopping using it? Simply stop doing subscription, I think you will not be the only one. For many aspects XSI is just perfect as is and I see many artist doing extraordinary art with release 6.5 or 7

[mattmos]

I think we need a bit of patience - it makes sense that once the gold level is matching the other apps there will be a silver level also to match the other apps. If this doesn't appear then by all means lets kick up a fuss, but right now its too early to know for sure.

[ThomasHelzle]

Graham, I respect your effort to smooth out some of the waves this massive price increase creates, but your logic is skewed as well if you go down to the real meat - numbers.

I was a happy Foundation customer.
Foundation no longer exists.
Then I was an Essentials customer.
Essentials no longer exists.
At this moment I have a network license and gold support, both of which I don't need.

I would still be a happy Foundation customer.

So in your view I can't compare the old Foundation price to what I am able to get nowadays.
But these are the realities private users and freelancers deal with.

I personally am not using XSI only, far from it. I need to maintain a huge bundle of 3D-, Audio-and Video-Web- and whatnot-Software and -Hardware to be able to deal with all the different jobs I get. So in a way, I have way higher per-seat-costs than larger companies where the individuals are usually way more specialized or licenses can be shared or re-used for network rendering.

This is why your view - a very Autodeskish view - is simply irrelevant for me.
It is similar to my reseller who gave me a phonecall this morning and wanted to interest me in buying 3 years of subscription in advance for the old price. That's now the third time she tried to get me into this and it's not appreciated.

I will keep my current version, drop subscription and see if a future job will pay for another update or not.
Or I will learn to live with the alternatives like Blender, Lightwave etc.

I will even be a happier person without having to deal with Autodesks attitude towards it's customers

Cheers,

Thomas

[Maximus]

You know, i've heard some big words here, but at the end of the day you buy and you pay something you need, i honestly bought Softimage because the price wasnt that steep like now, if i had to buy Softimage now i will never do it, its too high for my use and my purpose, it simply doesnt justify the cost considering the development on the department i need it is pretty stagnant since years now.

I would gladly pay the current price for Softimage if the tool and the subscription cost would be justified by a development oriented to what i need, there is also a thread about this here:
viewtopic.php?f=15&p=11751#p11751

So far its been only ICE and i dont need ICE, rising the package cost and subscription cost makes me stop and think a lot.
I kinda share your same feeling Thomas.

Max

[Bellsey]

Graham, I respect your effort to smooth out some of the waves this massive price increase creates, but your logic is skewed as well if you go down to the real meat - numbers.

I was a happy Foundation customer.
Foundation no longer exists.
Then I was an Essentials customer.
Essentials no longer exists.
At this moment I have a network license and gold support, both of which I don't need.

I would still be a happy Foundation customer.

So in your view I can't compare the old Foundation price to what I am able to get nowadays.
But these are the realities private users and freelancers deal with.

I get what you are saying but I don't think my logic is that skewed. I don't believe you can compare Foundation to what you get now, why? Foundation was just a one off price, download only, no upgrades, no support. Comparing that to what was Essentials or anything else now doesn't work, imo. Sure the facts will be that X price is more than Y price, therefore X is more expensive, but you also have to look at what you actually get for the extra money.
But I know its not that simple and that even with the best will in the world, if some users don't have the budget to upgrade/purchase, then that's fair enough. I can't blame them for that.

Many people mourned the passing of Foundation but personally I never thought it was sustainable.

[ThomasHelzle]

You need a small car, but there is only a huge truck with all the bells and whistles you can imagine.
Doesn't help you a bit if you get it "cheap".

In my opinion, Foundation and 3Democracy worked just fine.
A lot of freelancers would never have tried out XSI otherwise.
Now you start to loose that "foundation" in the masses again.
Might work for you in the long run, might not.

"Sustainable" depends mostly on the situation you're in... ;-)

Cheers,

Thomas

[luceric]

Foundation didn't work financially, it was what we call a 'loss leader" The margin was so razor-thin, the Linux version had to be more expensive to pay for the MainWin license without going into the red. The development of Softimage has always been paid by the corporate support contracts since the early years of the company, it was the large majority of the revenue.
btw I am as baffled as you are by this EU price hike, I don't know the reasoning behind it.

[ThomasHelzle]

I meant this differently:
There was a reason for Foundation.
Softimage (the company) didn't invent 3Democracy from the goodness of their hearts.
If big studios (the major income as you say) dropped XSI from their pipeline because they couldn't find enough good artists and artists didn't embrace XSI because it was too expensive and not widespread enough, Softimage was in a lose-lose situation.
It was my impression that Foundation worked in this regard and came in a time when many people were looking for alternatives to - for instance (but not only) - Lightwave.
Like me.

So from a pure 1-dimensional point of view, Foundation may have been idiotic, but from a bigger perspective it may have been what made XSI a major player again (even if the smallest).

I already hear the voices on the mailinglist that this lack-of-artists situation starts to return.
I had a project myself 1.5 years ago where I wasn't able to find any XSI artists on short notice for a job here in Berlin. The project was finished by a maya studio in the end.
I can't imagine this price increase is helping with that, neither does the reduction in different application levels or the missing subscription levels.

I for instance don't need support (other than for Autodesks retarded installers or licensing servers without any hints on usage ;) ) and when I tried to use it in the past I hardly got anything worthwhile back - the solution to the wacom-stops-everything problem came from you on the mailinglist, I never got anything back from official support.


Anyway. I'm actually over it now and made my peace with no longer being on subscription.
Part of me is even relieved, since I never felt comfortable with giving money to Autodesk while being treated like an asshole as a customer (read the software license "agreement" if you don't know what I mean).

I guess as an Autodesk employee, you guys suffer from at least a light Stockholm-syndrome ;)
Could be worse - there are people actually working at Apple

Cheers!

Thomas

[xsisupport]

Support told you to rename your wintab32.dll to wintab32.bak.
I don't see how that didn't work, since the other solution was to create a dummy wintab32.dll in the XSI_BINDER folder.

[azurecgi]

I think it's time to demonstrate a bit of people-power to Autodesk.

When my maintenance renewal comes up and I get the usual email plus invoice from my reseller (which will be £775+vat as opposed to £460+vat), I will simple tell them that I only want basic subscription at a lower price, or no thanks!

If we all do that, surely Autodesk will have no choice but to offer the basic subscription?

In the 5 years I've been paying for 'Gold' support, I have never used it, so there's no way I'm paying even more for something I don't use!!!

[luceric]

I meant this differently:
There was a reason for Foundation.
Softimage (the company) didn't invent 3Democracy from the goodness of their hearts.
If big studios (the major income as you say) dropped XSI from their pipeline because they couldn't find enough good artists and artists didn't embrace XSI because it was too expensive and not widespread enough, Softimage was in a lose-lose situation.
It was my impression that Foundation worked in this regard and came in a time when many people were looking for alternatives to - for instance (but not only) - Lightwave.

yeah, absolutely. In fact I generally always agree with what you say - I'm just providing additional perspective.

[ThomasHelzle]

xsisupport: Okay, nothing isn't true, support told me to rename the wintab32.dll in system32 as you say - which didn't work.

Luc-Eric told us on his blog (about a year after my inquiry to support) to create a dummy wintab32.dll in the bin folder of softimage which does work and doesn't affect other software.
http://www.softimageblog.com/archives/546

So Luc-Eric: 10 points, XSI Support: 0.5 points ;-)

This isn't about bashing XSI support anyway, just about me being able to live without it.
Mailinglist and Forums would be fine for me.

azurecgi: good idea

Cheers,

Thomas

[luceric]

right, I gave Support these wintab instructions, I'm surprised it didn't work. Maybe Wacom installs it in multiple locations.

[Nizar]

I don't know if can doing or not a comparison between Modo, Lightwave and XSI foundation. All these three product was, about, in the some price tag. Why XSI foundation was a Loss leader, and LW and Modo continue to live and prosper?

If we all do that, surely Autodesk will have no choice but to offer the basic subscription?

Yes, good idea, but definitely will not followed, unfortunately.

[ThomasHelzle]

"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."
Douglas Adams

Now that the new price is in effect - can anybody from Autodesk comment on why there is no silver subscription for Softimage?
We were told the price increase was about levelling XSI with the other products. If that is the case, why not go all the way and also offer silver support?

Cheers,

Thomas Helzle