SI 2013 sightings

[Bellsey]

At least i have an explanation for this poor release and the the presentation video. They were all working or going to for that "new" Maya Project. mIce.

Sorry, but was is not the case. 2013 is not a poor release.

[EricTRocks]

Graham, as seen in past threads it is futile to combat their posts.

[Bellsey]

that maybe true, however I think it is grossly unfair to insinuate (without knowing all the facts) that the team just simply s**t out the release and didn't care, because they knew they were moving projects afterwards.

[McNistor]

Graham, as seen in past threads it is futile to combat their posts.

He obviously believes that he should answer to their posts, so this begs the question why do you keep in every thread to contradict and sometimes even belittle people's sayings? What's your problem dude?

edit: I avoid to modifiy the above text as maybe some is already quoting me.
I don't have anything with someone contradicting, but you're sometimes condescending, just like in the above post.

[Bellsey]

Graham, as seen in past threads it is futile to combat their posts.

He obviously believes that he should answer to their posts, so this begs the question why do you keep in every thread to contradict and sometimes even belittle people's sayings? What's your problem dude?

edit: I avoid to modifiy the above text as maybe some is already quoting me.
I don't have anything with someone contradicting, but you're sometimes condescending, just like in the above post.

Is that a question for me?

[EricTRocks]

I believe it was directed at me Graham.

It is my opinion in that no matter what is said all the doom and gloomers are still going to doom and gloom. There are a bunch (not pointing directly your way McNistor, but not discluding you necessarily either) of people who are not listening to what the AD folks are saying and are being wildly stubborn that the end of the world is here when all other indications point to otherwise. In my opinion it is a waste of Graham's time to continue the battle of trying to make the doom and gloomers understand. They will if they choose to. It's up to them and can't be forced upon them.

edit:
Can't be forced to or seem to be reasoned wtih.

[gfxman]

[McNistor]

I believe it was directed at me Graham.

It is my opinion in that no matter what is said all the doom and gloomers are still going to doom and gloom. There are a bunch (not pointing directly your way McNistor, but not discluding you necessarily either) of people who are not listening to what the AD folks are saying and are being wildly stubborn that the end of the world is here when all other indications point to otherwise. In my opinion it is a waste of Graham's time to continue the battle of trying to make the doom and gloomers understand. They will if they choose to. It's up to them and can't be forced upon them.

edit:
Can't bew forced up or seem to be reasoned wtih.

If you ask those people, their opinion is that indications point to what they believe (end of the world).
Since there's no quantification method for people's opinions (as long as they don't refer to laws of nature or maths), I believe you telling Graham to not mind them is not going to stop that, but it will surely make you look condescending and in bad faith.

[gfxman]

when all other indications point to otherwise

The main softimage senior team is going to maya and replaced from hong kong people came out of nowhere, and that isn't making you ask yourself if something wrong is going on? Really?
WOW.

p.s.
can i ask for you and Graham what made 2013 a good release?
can you point me where to look? i'm serious now.

[EricTRocks]

How do you know that these "new" people haven't actually been around for a while now and these changes have been taking place and been planned for years. Things have still been going well for Softimage. If you're working at a studio and a lot of staff turn over and new faces turn up, do you think that the studio is going under???

Things that make 2013 a good release:
- See the bug fix list (this is a biggie, I'll take bug fixes over new features any day of the week)
- CrowdFX
- First version of HQV implemented.

See here for everything:
http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2013/en_us/userguide/files/new.htm

[EricTRocks]

Also Hong Kong != Singapore

[Clagman]

Yeesh, it's like the Newtek boards all over again.

[jamination]

I think it is a good indicator (the mass transfer of Softimage developers to Maya) of where Autodesk is putting its priority, it is obviously with Maya (and as much has been said here by Luceric). Now I can't say I blame them for that as Maya is their best selling software (or at least it sells a boatload more than Soft), however, as Softimage and Maya cost the same as a buyer I expect Softimage to compete with Maya as far as resources go and I don't think that is remotely possible and taking away many experienced Softimage developers sure ain't helping matters. Whether this was planned six months ago or 3 years ago makes no difference to me, it just does not look good.

And as far as 2013 being a poor release, I don't want to say that. I will say that it feels rather thin (but I think that is the nature of releases under Autodesk, and it just took a while for it to affect Softimage), on top of that the one (of 2) big things new the HQ viewport people (and Softimage employees) are saying it is not quite "there" yet. The fact they are SO far ahead of their competitors as far as seat count, they need to be very profitable, and that ALL their products need to align release dates has a major affect on development.

[T.I.M.]

Yea, Just to add:They didn't kill Toxic they just left it to fade out slowly.The same is going on now with SI .Fade out transition (to Maya, Max) slowly and gently so nobody get hurt....
When the money are THE ONLY thing that takes control , things are going to regress not to progress...
My fade out transition will be definitely outside Autodesk.

Still seems like a bit of a reach to me: afaik Toxik didn't get any "love" after aquisition - no new features added, but for chrissakes they just upgraded the viewport. Why the bleep would they do that if they plan to abandon? Makes no sense.

Worst case scenario SI becomes an app that's specialized for one particular market while Maya gets pushed as the ultimate film/vfx app. This would still be bad news though but to compare SI to Toxik....

I do agree that if - but to me that's still a big if - Autodesk kills SI i'd never buy their stuff again. Might learn Python and try to make Blender more like SI

I am not trying to compare them at all.There is no place for comparison I agree.They are very different applications. SOFTIMAGE is historical application in 3D ! (I am spending more time on front of it lately than with my wife and kid ). But all of this is only from our point of view. I don't think that the man in black suits see it that way.They look only profit. This is just my personal opinion so no offense please.

[Maximus]

Fact that we still hear things like everything is fine, Softimage is stronger than ever etc. makes me think..
Considering

- we got hit (eu people) by an unjustified increase in Software/Subscription price for no reason

- the last release of the software was thin if not worse to say the least, an half feature like HQV should have been left out untill ready for production, we are going in the same 3ds max/maya direction with half finished and buggy features implemented, No thanks.
CrowdFx is a nice demonstration of skill and tech of what ICE is capable of, still very niche tool.

- Bufixes. I dont want to sound harsh but bugfixes shouldnt be considered "news or feature" those are things we already payed for and should work, not customer fault if those arent workin on the first launch release and requires more work/time to get fixed.

- We are experiencing the worse marketing/selling plan ever, buy something without knowing where is development going, having price increases when you dont even know, find yourself disappointed by thin release.

- 90% if not 100% of Softimage dev team went away? I dont know how this could sound, but honestly its really hard to see something positive on this. 1) Because even if the newcomers are great programmers/talented etc, they would need time to catch up = another thin releases incoming, and honestly i'm tired to wait spending 1k each time for something thats not worth it anymore.
2) Why would you leave softimage? There was a migration apparently, thats hardly a good sign.

- in the end @everyone but @EricTrocks people can vent and say whatever they want ad/or not AD, but in the end what counts is facts, and whats happening, And in my opinion its not that cool atm.

[EricTRocks]

Fact that we still hear things like everything is fine, Softimage is stronger than ever etc. makes me think..
Considering

- we got hit (eu people) by an unjustified increase in Software/Subscription price for no reason

Not sure how this fits in with Softimage dev....

- the last release of the software was thin if not worse to say the least, an half feature like HQV should have been left out untill ready for production, we are going in the same 3ds max/maya direction with half finished and buggy features implemented, No thanks.

For you it might not meet your needs but for many others its getting the job done just fine, so leaving it out would not help a lot of those who find it good for a first version.

CrowdFx is a nice demonstration of skill and tech of what ICE is capable of, still very niche tool.

Depends on the studio you're at. Though i think it is attractive to both Commercial and Film studios. Another tool in the arsenal.

- Bufixes. I dont want to sound harsh but bugfixes shouldnt be considered "news or feature" those are things we already payed for and should work, not customer fault if those arent workin on the first launch release and requires more work/time to get fixed.

Any software has bugs. Expecting a release with none is ilogical. I wasn't pointing those out as new features. More that things were worked on and fixed as to justify that it wasn't a bad release.

- We are experiencing the worse marketing/selling plan ever, buy something without knowing where is development going, having price increases when you dont even know, find yourself disappointed by thin release.

I don't think we can kid ourselves in thinking we have ever known where Softimage dev was going so why expect it now?

- 90% if not 100% of Softimage dev team went away? I dont know how this could sound, but honestly its really hard to see something positive on this. 1) Because even if the newcomers are great programmers/talented etc, they would need time to catch up = another thin releases incoming, and honestly i'm tired to wait spending 1k each time for something thats not worth it anymore.

Who says they haven't been around for a while getting up to speed already? Just because they were intro'd yesterday doesn't mean they JUST got hired. If you don't like spending the money then its simple don't spend the money and move on. I personally wouldn't like this but you're not being held down with a gun to your head having to stay with Soft. Just saying you do have a choice and the power to use your money as a way to demonstrate your unhappiness. And honestly by the looks of it, you don't need any of the new features in 2013 so don't upgrade / renew subscription.

2) Why would you leave softimage? There was a migration apparently, thats hardly a good sign.

As I stated earlier, studios have staff turnover on each project. I don't see it terribly different either. Having to work on 1 project for 10+ years isn't necessarily something I'd be interested in personally.