Perpetual Licensing Changes Buyer's Guide - North America

[jamination]

Perhaps Luc-Eric, if you could please clarify a couple of questions, if you do not mind it would be appreciated. Most of the Perpetual license talk is about standalone products at Autodesk and not really inregards to Suites. So,

1.) Will Softimage cease to exist in the Ultimate Suite come after January 2016, as well?
2.) If the above is true, if I upgrade to the Ultimate Suite before the end of January 2016, will all software (including Softimage from that direct bundle) remain in a perpetual state forever, even if I decide to stay on or off of Subs in the future?

send your questions above by email to softimage.transition.plan "at" autodesk.com

Thank you. I will give the email a try. Hopefully they can provide as good of information as you usually do.

please post the answer in this thread if you will.

Also, perhaps luceric is just a direct person, but his answers come across as a bit smug, and a bit insensitive consider the list he is on. just an opinion.

[luceric]

send your questions above by email to softimage.transition.plan "at" autodesk.com

Thank you. I will give the email a try. Hopefully they can provide as good of information as you usually do.

I know.. it came to my attention a while back that I don't have the permission to go anywhere near sales-related question. That mail address should get you an actual official response from a person that can. Let me know if it doesn't.

[Hirazi Blue]

When Jill Ramsay bowed out, we were told (IIRC) Daniel Tutino-Galletti would be taking her place in the answering of all transitional questions. Is this still the case and if so wouldn't it be nice to point him to our little community again as his actual attendance seems rather low (especially compared to Jill Ramsay)?

[Shredder565]

This rental business seems to be targeted at big business/studios only. Sure, they can ramp up when a big project comes along and then go down to barebones employees when a big project is not around = less full time jobs and more temporary positions = even more of a volatile economic situation for our industry, as the "knowns" will be less...

I am currently on a Maintenance Subscription plan, and when a project is not around, I can still fiddle with my software and learn new things and even do personal projects, to what I consider to be a decent price for the value of what I get per year. People solely on rental - whose going to pay to learn new features or software, and stay relevant while looking for a job, or even to do personal projects? I understand there is a fee to use the software, regardless of the route, but if you have to keep pressing the "pay" button each month, you start to rethink just how much more money you are spending and if your personal project/learning is really worth it for that month...

I don't get how people think they ar e saving on a rental service.

eventually, you are going to reach a point where you are paying more than you would have if you just s aved for the original price. I bought the student edition, but when I Had to buy the real one, I saved up for a while and it was a well lasted purchase.

I can see renting a small amount per month and then STOP renting once you hit the full price mark. but after that you are just throwing money away and it doesn't s ave you anything. all this renting nonsense is like a fixed game of poker, you'll always loose in the end. in my view

[Daniel Brassard]

I did the calculation before on another thread https://www.si-community.com/forum/v ... 28&start=0.

based on price from their website http://www.autodesk.com/suites/entertai ... -suite/buy

The jest of it is:

* if you are on the old maintenance program and you already own the suite, stay on maintenance until the price change, the saving is substantial.

* If you don't own the suite then its a toss up between buying the suite before the deadline and include maintenance or go for annual rental. Over five years, you will end up paying a little more than $1000 on monthly rental.

This does not apply to large studio and work force fluctuation. Then rental is a better option and you can get better deals by negotiation. There most be a sweet spot somewhere between owning and rental but without further analysis, it would be difficult to decide. Do your homework and think carefully. There are other options out there as well that could fit your budget or workflow.

[Daniel Brassard]

Here is another view of the deal, based on the Entertainment Suite Ultimate (Maya/Max/Softimage/Mudbox/Motion Builder) including the current offer rebate valid until 24 July 2015.

It shows where options overtake the other in term of price in North America. The X scale represent months, the Y scale, dollars invested over time.

The chart shows that:

* If you are on maintenance, stay on maintenance until things change, your monthly cost is only $91/month, not including taxes and vat.

* If you are going to use the suite for less than 21 months, then rental is an option. At 22 months, a current purchase with maintenance and the promotion offer is a better deal than the monthly rental. At 28 Months, the purchase is better that the quarterly rental option. At 40 months, the purchase is better than the annual rental.

* If you miss the promotion offer, then things change a bit. Less than 27 months, you are better off with rental. At 28 months, a purchase with maintenance option is better than the monthly option, at 36 months the purchase is better than quarterly rental option and at 50 months the purchase is better than the annual maintenance option.

* Short story, go annual rental if you can as it cost less per month (228$/m) than quarterly (285$/m) or monthly (340$/m). Frankly, I don't know why they have such a complicated rental fee scale and why they don't stick to one lower monthly fee of $228/month.

If I was to make a suggestion to Autodesk it would be:

* Change the rental fee scale to $228/months or $2730/year.

* At 48 months/4 years mark, give us the option to switch the licence to perpetual and to pay $114/month ($1365/year) maintenance fee in appreciation for your long time customer commitment (basically half rental monthly fee equivalent). Ask for yearly commitment as before.

* Slowly increase the current maintenance customer rate from $91/month ($1090/year) to $114/month ($1365/y) over the course of 4 years (48 months), basically a $6 increment a month or $69 year equivalent increase. This would align the existing maintenance customers rate to be the same as the new maintenance customers.

By doing so, it would simplify your database of customers on maintenance, simplify the rental price point and avoid totally alienating your existing customer base. It shows intent to serve better your customers not just profit margin.

All price not including inflation or price adjustments over time. Assumed that the current suite offering will remain in the foreseeable future, does not include change to the software suite offering or removal of capabilities

[Draise]

So.. basically it's cheaper to buy perpetual in the long term, and keep the maintenance for the same benefits as rental?

What are the pro's of rental?

[Daniel Brassard]

Short term rental:

[*]Evaluation of software before committing to a large scale purchase.
[*]Slowly converting pipelines
[*]Increase of short term employee to deal with increase workload
[*]Short term contract where a specific software is used during production or to communicate between studios
[*]Experimentation and R&D research where access to the software is needed
[*]Plugin development, to test if the plugin would work in specific environments
[*]Hardware crashes or fire, you are in the middle of production and lose several machines. Until you get that resolved, you rent computers and the software to minimise lost production time.

etc.

[Rez007]

please post the answer in this thread if you will.

I definitely will. I sent out my email message to them right after I received the address from Luc-Eric. I haven't heard anything back yet, but I am going to follow-up with them at the beginning of the week, if I do not hear from them in the meantime. I will post my findings here.

I know.. it came to my attention a while back that I don't have the permission to go anywhere near sales-related question. That mail address should get you an actual official response from a person that can. Let me know if it doesn't.

I do appreciate the help, and my intentions were not to have my response come off as "back-handed" by any means, if it was interpreted as such. I was being truthful. I have dealt with Autodesk a lot, and to be honest, I posted here because I know you are active on this forum, which is extremely rare to be able to talk to anyone from Autodesk. Over the years, whether or not, we (the community) have agreed with the answers you have provided with or not, you have always given the best and most accurate information. (Jill was also very helpful on here) So, that is why I tried here first, and I understand if you cannot provide information on those. I sent my email yesterday to Autodesk, I will let you know if I do not hear anything back. Thanks Again!

[Rez007]

Short term rental:

[*]Evaluation of software before committing to a large scale purchase.
[*]Slowly converting pipelines
[*]Increase of short term employee to deal with increase workload
[*]Short term contract where a specific software is used during production or to communicate between studios
[*]Experimentation and R&D research where access to the software is needed
[*]Plugin development, to test if the plugin would work in specific environments
[*]Hardware crashes or fire, you are in the middle of production and lose several machines. Until you get that resolved, you rent computers and the software to minimise lost production time.

etc.

Thank you for posting your information, especially the charts above, as it is very useful! If someone does not have a license, then going to the Ultimate Suite is quite expensive. However, upgrading from Maya with Softimage, to the Ultimate Suite is not too bad, but is still pricey considering some of the software is not, or hardly, being developed anymore. The annual Maintenance fee for the Ultimate Suite is not too bad considering I was paying roughly $850 per year for Softimage alone. In the long run, Rental will cost more if you decide to rent every month. I really do like what you mentioned about Rent-to-Own. I think that is an idea Autodesk should embrace as that would be a friendly gesture and strengthen their user base. However, I do see a potential issue with that...when people reach the "Own" milestone after renting, they might be inclined to stop with Maintenance, or anything else, and just sit on their current version, to only pickup again the whole process down-the-road.

I get this feeling, that when this whole rental period will take effect, I think there will be a mass exodus to other software. Adobe's Photoshop plan is pretty cheap on a monthly basis (as well as the complete CC for what you get), but Autodesk's is quite a bit more. Their products are completely different beasts, and I am not saying Autodesk isn't justified in charging what they do, as I am aware that creating their products is not cheap at all. However, expecting people to jump on board as "rental is great" is going to be rough - the cost is quite high for individuals and there are for sure going to be bumps along the road.

I am sticking around a bit because I have a Perpetual License already - I am not a rental person for when I want to open work that I created. However, if perpetuity ever gets stripped away and rental is the only option anywhere, then I would have to look around for the best options that would suite me.

[Rez007]

This rental business seems to be targeted at big business/studios only. Sure, they can ramp up when a big project comes along and then go down to barebones employees when a big project is not around = less full time jobs and more temporary positions = even more of a volatile economic situation for our industry, as the "knowns" will be less...

I am currently on a Maintenance Subscription plan, and when a project is not around, I can still fiddle with my software and learn new things and even do personal projects, to what I consider to be a decent price for the value of what I get per year. People solely on rental - whose going to pay to learn new features or software, and stay relevant while looking for a job, or even to do personal projects? I understand there is a fee to use the software, regardless of the route, but if you have to keep pressing the "pay" button each month, you start to rethink just how much more money you are spending and if your personal project/learning is really worth it for that month...

I don't get how people think they ar e saving on a rental service.

eventually, you are going to reach a point where you are paying more than you would have if you just s aved for the original price. I bought the student edition, but when I Had to buy the real one, I saved up for a while and it was a well lasted purchase.

I can see renting a small amount per month and then STOP renting once you hit the full price mark. but after that you are just throwing money away and it doesn't s ave you anything. all this renting nonsense is like a fixed game of poker, you'll always loose in the end. in my view

I did the same thing. Worked on outside work to save up for Softimage. I bought it cold-turkey when it was under Avid, as I really liked what I saw as their whole Softimage/XSI mantra I wanted to be a part of - it was a great decision!

[Draise]

Short term rental:

[*]Evaluation of software before committing to a large scale purchase.

Aren't there 30 day trial periods on everything?

[*]Slowly converting pipelines

If it would take the process of preproduction ( 6 months to a year ) to convert a pipeline (with another 6 months to a year to push your project to said pipeline), or when you are finishing a 2 or 3 year project and starting another.. during that timeframe... wouldn't renting be detrimental to your budget if it costs more after two years? With the lack of the benifits of keeping that said pipeline after you stop the rent to trial/test/implement the new pipeline?

[*]Increase of short term employee to deal with increase workload

That makes sense.. though.. What happens to network licenses?

[*]Short term contract where a specific software is used during production or to communicate between studios

Makes sense. But if you'd want to work with them in two years time, wouldn't you want to plan for that? What about others with the same pipeline, or similar? When I stop the rent, do I sit on my butt waiting till I get another deal? If I am going to be full of work with studios and their similar pipelines, for the next two years, and some.. then.. maybe perpetual?

[*]Experimentation and R&D research where access to the software is needed

[*]Plugin development, to test if the plugin would work in specific environments

Again, 30 day trial demo doesn't make a cut for said need? Are they taking away these demo trials? And again, if you want to develop more than two years and save your cash, again.. wouldn't you invest in the perpetual tool?

[*]Hardware crashes or fire, you are in the middle of production and lose several machines. Until you get that resolved, you rent computers and the software to minimize lost production time.

If you had a perpetual license - the ones you get on autodesk servers I assume, this wouldn't be an issue - other than renting or having to buy new machines - which at the cost of hardware is cheaper to buy than rent a few months hands down - have it last you a few years - then spend another few months rent to buy another machine for a few years.

I don't know. I just see it.. as... renting always will cost more, using something on "credit" is.. just not financially sound. You don't rent a house your whole life - you try buy it. One day it will actually start paying for itself. Same with software, you want it to actually pay for itself over time, not continue to require you to keep working to pay and maintain it's cost and development..

Mortgaging software might be the way, rent to buy... I could work with that (as I dont' have say.. 18 grand right up front for 3-5 seats of ultimate suite..)

[Daniel Brassard]

Hi Draise,

You are correct in your assessment. It comes down to short term needs versus long term requirements and potential markets. Most 30 days trials have limitations (30 days only, watermark, no plugins allowed, no programming allowed, restricted format, no import/export functionality, limited size of assets or scene files, limited render size, restricted to built-in renderers, limited particle and special effects, etc.)

I don't know the limitation imposed on the Ultimate suite when on trial mode other than the 30 days, maybe somebody in the know can discuss this better than me.

As for the perpetual license, yes you can contact Autodesk and have the perpetual licenses released and re-issued to new machines, but sometime the information get destroyed or is not available for a while and you would have to take some time to sort out which license was on which machine. Good studios have procedures for that and would have that information on hand, but Murphy has a tendency to poke his head at the worst place, especially during crunch time.

As for the network license, you are limited by the number of licenses allowed on your server. Anything above the number of allowed licenses and you are back to renting or purchasing. having that option to cope with surge production is good.

And yes, renting over time get expensive, that is why I made the chart to show the tipping point, based on a one license scenario. Each case has different tipping point, so do your research and compare benefits vs disadvantages. A rent-to-own option or option to convert to perpetual at a reduce cost would be a good thing IMO.

[luceric]

I don't know the limitation imposed on the Ultimate suite when on trial mode other than the 30 days, maybe somebody in the know can discuss this better than me.

The limitation are in the EULA. You can't use a trial to convert file for work or develop a plugin, it's for evaluation for purchase only. No commercial use.

on a related subject, it confuses me a bit that there is so much talk of the suites price in this thread for two reasons:

1) Perpertual license are going away only for individual products, not the suites. You can still buy the suites next year.

2) Very few people currently buy the Ultimate Suite, or would need to rent it monthly. You'd rent your main software, let's say Maya, and then if you need Max for a bit, you rent that for a month. Maybe you'll never use anything else.
The suite is bothersome IMHO, it's a huge install where you get all the software, but it's tied to one user on one machine (the online store prices are for node locked license). With rental you can use the software on any machine.

[Rez007]

I don't know the limitation imposed on the Ultimate suite when on trial mode other than the 30 days, maybe somebody in the know can discuss this better than me.

The limitation are in the EULA. You can't use a trial to convert file for work or develop a plugin, it's for evaluation for purchase only. No commercial use.

on a related subject, it confuses me a bit that there is so much talk of the suites price in this thread for two reasons:

1) Perpertual license are going away only for individual products, not the suites. You can still buy the suites next year.

2) Very few people currently buy the Ultimate Suite, or would need to rent it monthly. You'd rent your main software, let's say Maya, and then if you need Max for a bit, you rent that for a month. Maybe you'll never use anything else.
The suite is bothersome IMHO, it's a huge install where you get all the software, but it's tied to one user on one machine (the online store prices are for node locked license). With rental you can use the software on any machine.

For me, I did state that in my post that I know this is not for Suites ending, however, depending on how Softimage gets handled within the Ultimate Suite and its perpetuity, and that I am looking to grab Max, that is why I posted my original statement and perhaps why there might be multiple posts thereafter, idk. I have Maya, but I do see Max used a lot in other industries, so being able to grab that would be nice, as I do not like to rent my software - maybe it is just a personal thing.

That is good to know about the large install, and I guess being able to login from any location is an added benefit of rental. For the Ultimate Suite, I got from your post that it is one large install file, is that correct? I thought it would be how the current Maya with Softimage bundle is setup (2015), where you can choose to install either Maya, Softimage, or Mental Ray individually if you want.

[MauricioPC]

For me, I did state that in my post that I know this is not for Suites ending, however, depending on how Softimage gets handled within the Ultimate Suite and its perpetuity, and that I am looking to grab Max, that is why I posted my original statement and perhaps why there might be multiple posts thereafter, idk. I have Maya, but I do see Max used a lot in other industries, so being able to grab that would be nice, as I do not like to rent my software - maybe it is just a personal thing.

That is good to know about the large install, and I guess being able to login from any location is an added benefit of rental. For the Ultimate Suite, I got from your post that it is one large install file, is that correct? I thought it would be how the current Maya with Softimage bundle is setup (2015), where you can choose to install either Maya, Softimage, or Mental Ray individually if you want.

If it's the same as the student version, it's a 16gigs installer that lets you choose what to install (Maya, Max, Mudbox, Motionbuilder). It also has (the 2016 version at least), a folder for the 2015 Softimage version. But Softimage isn't on the main installer page anymore.