Non-commercial Renderman released...

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Mathaeus
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by Mathaeus » 25 Mar 2015, 09:36

luceric wrote:someone may be missing the irony of cheering Houdini while at the same time jeering Renderman for having the same market position, and the same users, after just as many years. And now they both have very similar low-price strategies to try to expand into small shops and to individuals. It's all the same, both are heavy iron technical tools from the 1990s that are now trying have more one-click results, lower price, to move into markets with heavy competitions.

Agree, hundred percent. Anyway, I'm always considering the size of company as a first factor, where smaller = better, smaller owner is more motivated to keep the product alive. Simply because it is all what they have, usually. For example, in case of 3delight, my experience took much longer and better than I ever expected.
For big players, like Pixar, AD or NVidia, unfortunately, it seems to be too much easy to cancel the product, simply because they can afford this. More exactly, only small concern I have about Maya LT, it is owner, who is able to cancel it tomorrow, just if some influential person or group, wants.

Nox
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by Nox » 25 Mar 2015, 09:39

Ok, played with it yesterday and here are some noob's first impressions...

RIS is SLOW! Slower than Arnold. IPR is not as responsive as Arnold's. It does not show lights in DX mode of VP2.0. Also, now I understand why folks at SA did not implement VCM... It's kinda useless unless you need caustics (anyone needs it?) or have some extremely weird scene with hidden lights. In regular interior scene it seems like the same thing as PT.

On the good side, custom VFB is very cool, Arnold lacks such essential thing (in Maya). Also RIS has some sort of progressive sampler, which can be useful for overnight rendering. Arnold's IPR is just a trick and not usable as progressive renderer. Disney PBR is also interesting, not sure if it uses GGX or not.

Overall I think studios switched to Arnold because it's faster, more streamlined and not cluttered with legacy stuff.

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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by angus_davidson » 25 Mar 2015, 12:46

To me the interesting thing is that they are finally taking notice the world outside has moved onto other things. That they are trying to get people back is encouraging because it will get them to deal with areas where Renderman is lacking. They did put a lot of work into resources as well. far more stuff easily available then any of the previous times I have dabbled with it.

whether they can do anything to swing the momentum, I dont know. But its a start.
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MauricioPC
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by MauricioPC » 25 Mar 2015, 13:34

luceric wrote:someone may be missing the irony of cheering Houdini while at the same time jeering Renderman for having the same market position, and the same users, after just as many years. And now they both have very similar low-price strategies to try to expand into small shops and to individuals. It's all the same, both are heavy iron technical tools from the 1990s that are now trying have more one-click results, lower price, to move into markets with heavy competitions.
Yeah, exactly. But what's the point of BiFrost as well? Autodesk missed the boat on FX and now it's investing hard to get it back, why is that? Even being a niche product, Houdini now is absolute on FX.

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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by luceric » 25 Mar 2015, 14:50

Mathaeus wrote:For big players, like Pixar, AD or NVidia, unfortunately, it seems to be too much easy to cancel the product, simply because they can afford this. More exactly, only small concern I have about Maya LT, it is owner, who is able to cancel it tomorrow, just if some influential person or group, wants.
Pixar, which is disney, now, shouldn't care about selling software. However, it's my understanding that they specifically created an independent group a few years ago to develop it further and with Ed Catmull being the president of Disney that should be pretty safe. I've heard many of the other renderers have been shopping to be acquired, so there is really nothing safe out there, just the illusion of safety. For long term storage, we have to safe our assets in open formats, even an open source software could break back comp or have an unsolvable bug loading an old asset.

luceric
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by luceric » 25 Mar 2015, 15:28

MauricioPC wrote:Yeah, exactly. But what's the point of BiFrost as well? Autodesk missed the boat on FX and now it's investing hard to get it back, why is that? Even being a niche product, Houdini now is absolute on FX.
Maya needs to revamp its FX toolset after many years of neglect, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's about Houdini, in the same way that the guys who made FumeFX or Thinking Particles weren't responding to Houdini when they did their stuff for Max. Or ICE in Softimage.
Last edited by luceric on 25 Mar 2015, 15:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by MauricioPC » 25 Mar 2015, 15:38

luceric wrote:Maya needs to revamp its FX toolset after many years of under-funding the area, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's about Houdini, in the same way that the guys who made FumeFX or Thinking Particles weren't responding to Houdini when they did their stuff for Max. Or ICE in Softimage.
Yeah, makes sense. Though the Max guys must love it since the nFluids, nCloth and nTheRest is a lot better than Max implementation. :)

About Renderman, while it's not the most advanced render, isn't it better than Mental Ray? I still need to try it properly, but I've seen some friends (Max users) installing Maya just to try it out and liking it.

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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by angus_davidson » 25 Mar 2015, 17:10

Be trying some scenes I originally did in Octane, and while they came out great , and about 0.1 times the speed, the Renderman renders just had a ohhh quality out the box that is hard to beat.

Lighting in Renderman is also a pleasure. Incredibly interactive even on a laptop with a 750m GPU.

Kind regards

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MauricioPC
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by MauricioPC » 25 Mar 2015, 17:32

I think I need to format my computer as Maya is slow as hell.

But in any case, I found out that the Renderman worked faster than Arnold (general use, setup, openning IPR, etc).

It's probably because my machine is a third world machine, but yeah ... while Modo renderer is faster, just the preview of Renderman is more beautiful.


Now I only need to figure out how to improve performance of Maya on my pc or just wait for the Cinema 4D version.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by Mathaeus » 25 Mar 2015, 20:48

luceric wrote:
Mathaeus wrote:For big players, like Pixar, AD or NVidia, unfortunately, it seems to be too much easy to cancel the product, simply because they can afford this. More exactly, only small concern I have about Maya LT, it is owner, who is able to cancel it tomorrow, just if some influential person or group, wants.
Pixar, which is disney, now, shouldn't care about selling software. However, it's my understanding that they specifically created an independent group a few years ago to develop it further and with Ed Catmull being the president of Disney that should be pretty safe. I've heard many of the other renderers have been shopping to be acquired, so there is really nothing safe out there, just the illusion of safety. For long term storage, we have to safe our assets in open formats, even an open source software could break back comp or have an unsolvable bug loading an old asset.
Agree, also have to admit, for some unknown reason I feel confident with AD, after all, no big deal to put that small money into Maya LT, whatever happens later. Same with Houdini Indie.
But, when it comes to Pixar and Renderman, today, something constanty tell me: wrong, wrong, wrong. Something irrational, maybe - but it's present. All that, after a good number of hours, spent on Renderman related stuff, from Larry Gritz's BMRT to almost today.

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by Daniel Brassard » 26 Mar 2015, 00:58

If Disney has access to PRMan, (who also happen to own Pixar and ILM), why did they had to create a brand new renderer for Big Hero 6? :-?
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

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MauricioPC
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by MauricioPC » 26 Mar 2015, 01:21

Daniel Brassard wrote:If Disney has access to PRMan, (who also happen to own Pixar and ILM), why did they had to create a brand new renderer for Big Hero 6? :-?
I'll say this ... Big Hero 6 is the most beautiful 3D animated movie I ever seen. The visuals are simply outstanding.

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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by ActionArt » 26 Mar 2015, 01:51

I'm just guessing that Renderman might be trying to re-build some lost market share (if indeed they care about that). I read some interesting articles that talked about all the new in-house rendering systems out there. WETA has their own now (they used to be a big RM user), Dreamworks has their own, Sony uses Arnold a lot as far as I know and so it goes. It seems many big FX shops are making their own now and they all used to be big RM users.

I've always been curious and wanted to try it a bit. Certainly it has advantages and is well known for stability. Nice that they let the little guys play with it now.

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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by luceric » 26 Mar 2015, 02:21

Daniel Brassard wrote:If Disney has access to PRMan, (who also happen to own Pixar and ILM), why did they had to create a brand new renderer for Big Hero 6? :-?
more about that here:
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/disneys ... es-disney/

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by Daniel Brassard » 26 Mar 2015, 12:01

Thanks Luc-Eric for the link. That answer the question. Interesting read indeed.
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

Nox
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Re: Non-commercial Renderman released...

Post by Nox » 28 Mar 2015, 18:58

I've noticed strange issue, by default ipr is set to use -1 cores, which means use everything but one. With this or -2 I have horrible lag when using Maya while ipr is running. Now I've tried setting it to 4 (I have 6 cores) and everything is smooth and fast.