Bitter sweet Siggraph

[talent103]

Thats' funny because I remember you being the biggest cheerleader for "Everyone needs to stop the talk about Softimage being on the chopping block." No one wanted you to be more right than me. We all see how that turned out. I don't really care what Autodesk does with Max. I hope they continue to make it and that you are right for the sake of the userbase. It wont affect me either way but with all due respect ( and I do have much for you) I will talk about whatever the hell I want to talk about.

[EricTRocks]

Obviously you're aloud to talk about whatever you want.

It was more of an expression that I think people need to stop making sweeping comments (like when they did for Softimage) and that many here have a very skewed view of Max. Nobody liked when people were talking about Softimage going EOL from outside the community. I think we need to be a bit respectful for the other communities.

Max is the bread winner out of the family of AD products. This comes from talking from many people who know a good amount of history on the products.

Like when people were talking about the Softimage demise (2 years before it happened), I'm saying that people were talking about things as if they knew facts. They didn't, regardless of whether it ended up being the case. You can speculate all you want, I just don't think it's productive.

If you want to make a comment about how 3DS Max is next on the chopping block, please include some information that backs up the statement. We can have a bit better conversation in that respect. Otherwise we're just in a he said vs. he said sorta thing. Like we are now.

[MauricioPC]

timeout!

I dont think Max will be killed because its so used. You have a new PM everytime showing that they are listening, etc.

I really like Max ... Theres so many stuff to work with it, maxscript is easy to learn and very helpful, amazing plugins that get the job done, etc.

My only problem is that Max does need a performance overhaul. Its viewport is still fast as hell, but the software feels heavy when you use it. The things I saw at the Vision series on Siggraph, I wish were for Max too. Multithread some things, improve animation and the reference system. At least Max already has a nicer implementation of OpenSubdiv accordantly with Neil Blevins.

The thing I hate more in Max is how it freezes with simple stuff and you dont know if its coming back or if its gone. But other than that, I think its a powerful tool for freelancers.

[McNistor]

I think it's a matter of semantics when talking about Max on the chopping block. Will it be soon announced EOL like Softimage was? No. Will it receive updates that are buzz worthy as game changing features? Mostly likely not.
Max will suffer a much more slower and agonizing death than Soft did, simply because of its userbase. They won't axed it with one decisive sweep because it's still producing milk, but like a good cow that's getting old, you can't expect to milk it forever. You can take care of it, vaccinate it and whatnot - a.k.a. updates for arch-viz - but slowly push it away from games and film until will become irrelevant even in arch-viz as the time will go by (talking about 3dsMax now, not the cow).
Whoever thinks 3dsMax will ever again be a competitive modern piece of s/w is delusional (not saying there people that do believe that around here).
That's the fate 3dsMax has in store IMO.

[MauricioPC]

I think it's a matter of semantics when talking about Max on the chopping block. Will it be soon announced EOL like Softimage was? No. Will it receive updates that are buzz worthy as game changing features? Mostly likely not.
Max will suffer a much more slower and agonizing death than Soft did, simply because of its userbase. They won't axed it with one decisive sweep because it's still producing milk, but like a good cow that's getting old, you can't expect to milk it forever. You can take care of it, vaccinate it and whatnot - a.k.a. updates for arch-viz - but slowly push it away from games and film until will become irrelevant even in arch-viz as the time will go by (talking about 3dsMax now, not the cow).
Whoever thinks 3dsMax will ever again be a competitive modern piece of s/w is delusional (not saying there people that do believe that around here).
That's the fate 3dsMax has in store IMO.

I think I'm a little delusional because I thought they would improve just a little bit.

[Hirazi Blue]

I was thinking strongly on going to C4D, but this last release didn't really make me impressed. Again ... no work done on the particle system (for years), the shading capabilities are still inferior to Max/Maya/SI, no improvement on viewport performance for better animation playback or lots of objects (good for heavy mograph or particles).

The classic problem with generalist software obviously being that it isn't the best at anything.

I really like Max ...

Problem solved: it's that simple, I'm afraid. You should use software you like, not software everyone perceives as being better/whatever.
And like it has been stated before, they won't kill it that easily and probably haven't moved all development to Singapore yet.
;)

[Mathaeus]

I really like Max ... Theres so many stuff to work with it, maxscript is easy to learn and very helpful, amazing plugins that get the job done, etc.

Regarding yours frequent, how to animate out of SI or Maya
Well, if helps, one my ex colleague still animates in max, despite the fact, that while ago he got XSI 7 as award on CG talk short movie competition, and all my power of persuasion From what I heard, not because this or that is better, I think more because of habits. Didn't tried to convince him in last months, anyway
When it comes to setting keys, dopeshit and fcurve editor, actually all apps are similar. Ok SI has synoptic, but you have to have a bit of copy paste skills to create your own. Imho, where SI really shines in one man band category, it is more a sort of easy rigging. Predictable constraints, GATOR and such things. For small example, if client asks to swap hands from character A to character B, and character C suddenly has to wear the jacket I (this was a real request, by the way) of course all that plus new render has to be done to tomorrow morning - SI can do that so much easier than Max. If you are able to negotiate a longer time for such revision - perhaps you can live without SI.

[Alen]

Well, if helps, one my ex colleague still animates in max, despite the fact, that while ago he got XSI 7 as award on CG talk short movie competition, and all my power of persuasion

you talking ´bout Brajan? He got xsi6 if i am not mistaken!
On the subject...it is all about individual perception and what gig you land, in the end if you land maya gig you dont care about xsi, max or whatever...given that you know what are doing in maya ;P

[MauricioPC]

Thanks for the inputs guys, really! Of course I prefer Softimage, but given it's not a option, I shall return to what I'm more used to.

Since we are talking about rigging and animation, Clovis Gay just release this tool for Max. Don't know about you guys, but this is awesome!



http://www.kinematiclab.com/#!fast/cokv

[Mathaeus]

Well, if helps, one my ex colleague still animates in max, despite the fact, that while ago he got XSI 7 as award on CG talk short movie competition, and all my power of persuasion

you talking ´bout Brajan? He got xsi6 if i am not mistaken!
On the subject...it is all about individual perception and what gig you land, in the end if you land maya gig you dont care about xsi, max or whatever...given that you know what are doing in maya ;P

Avid Softimage updated this to 7..... Good old times.

[luchifer]

Thanks for the inputs guys, really! Of course I prefer Softimage, but given it's not a option, I shall return to what I'm more used to.

Since we are talking about rigging and animation, Clovis Gay just release this tool for Max. Don't know about you guys, but this is awesome!



http://www.kinematiclab.com/#!fast/cokv

I dont understand why youy are amazed by that video, yet underwhelmed with the new features of c4d (Interactive tag + xpresso)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-UMjvVEHHY

[MauricioPC]

I dont understand why youy are amazed by that video, yet underwhelmed with the new features of c4d (Interactive tag + xpresso)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-UMjvVEHHY

Actually the Interactive tag was one of the new features I actually liked. That and the new symmetry.

[Nox]

IMO biggest problem with Max that it's bloated beyond repair.

[Bellsey]

ok, just my short 2p's worth here.

As always, no shortage of some interesting opinions and statements here.
So, I'm hardly the best person to leap to Max's defense as I've stated many times that its not really a product I've liked or used. However, I must echo Eric's comments here. I know its hard to defend the past over previous statements we've made about Softimage's future, but there also has to be sense of perspective as Eric has alluded too. In the same way many of Softimage's users love that product, the same can also be said for Max. Max is an important product for Autodesk, it's usage and userbase is vast and wide, into many different industries. And I can't see that usage changing (even in M&E) for some time yet.

I can fully understand Max users feeling a little unloved recently, but I think it was the timing of internal restructuring that unfortunately effected Max more than some other products. That seems to have settled down now and Eddie coming in as perhaps been (imho) a calming influence and though he's only been the PM for a little over a year now, there's been some very positive steps which have been well received (in large part) by the community.

Here's a Siggraph interview with Eddie....

[Bullit]

Bifrost for Maya and Maya LT tell us what Max is in Autodesk. Necessary due to user base but nothing more.

In short, Max still lives because of plugins - Autodesk should put a shrine for Chaos Group and excellent Thinkbox Software- and community.
If it was just Autodesk work it would have been dead long ago.

[Bellsey]

There were several factors behind our choice of Maya as the basis of an LT version for indie game developers. And perhaps an important
one, that many seem to overlook, was cross platform availability. Maya works in Windows, OSX and Linux.