softimage 2011 is near.....

[Hirazi Blue]

IMHO Softimage did itself somewhat of a disservice when they offered us all the "unsupported" "sneak preview" of their ICE Kinematics when XSI 7 came out. The version they have on offer now seems obviously much more powerful (and, I assume, much, much more stable) than that earlier incarnation we all "lovingly" remember as
"set XSI_UNSUPPORTED_ICE_KINEMATICS=1" ;)

[Hirazi Blue]

As events were unfolding I didn't take enough time to read the "Press Release" concerning Softimage 2011 (see link on first page of thread). After lots of coffee I must say the following quote from Stig Gruman, Autodesk vice president of digital entertainment, makes me wonder once again about the future of Softimage at Autodesk:

Softimage is a great addition to Maya or 3ds Max pipelines helping to expand creative capability and increase productivity. {Highlight added - HB}

[jpfrancisco]

Interesting update. Loving the pick objects for area light feature and other light features. Basically rendering side interest me.
The ICE kenematics revolutionize rigging.
Still wishing for more modelling tools though like Modo and C4D. Hoping they will look into this.

[pimeto]

@pimeto
Hmmm, that sounds a bit harsh...
Looks like a very solid update to me!
The "hero feature", stable/"supported" ICE Kinematics might surprise us all!
And somehow I get the feeling this is a release with updates "all around", not just one feature enhanced, but several main aspects of the software addressed by new features...

I'm going to miss the legacy particles, however...

Seriously dude!!
You nailed it - a solid update - not a final release!
Cmon, now. I dont say that most of the features are not cool but the biggest and most important part of XSi, which makes it "a great addition to maya or 3dsmax" is the crappy old mental ray renderer!
170 new mental ray shaders ? wtf... if you look at it, the new and modern renderers have a couple of shaders that make it all - Vray, Maxwell etc, etc...

They put thousands of shaders, camera shaders and god know what else... and so what ?
I end up learning like for months the god damn renderer, to render a turntable of my model !?
WTF ??? Cmon people, this is the biggest expectation we XSI users need!!!

I hope the guys at Chaos speed up thing with Vray and give us a release this year

[Hirazi Blue]

You nailed it - a solid update - not a final release!

Oops, you got me there...
But that's not what I meant, obviously...
I think the "Mental Ray" debate has gone on for quite some time now, but any improvement is better than none. Chances Autodesk or Softimage will adopt another "on board" renderer any time soon are slim and I'll take "Mental Ray" as an "on board" solution over an as of yet unavailable third party renderer any day (but I'm on a tight budget, I must add).

[xsisupport]

As events were unfolding I didn't take enough time to read the "Press Release" concerning Softimage 2011 (see link on first page of thread). After lots of coffee I must say the following quote from Stig Gruman, Autodesk vice president of digital entertainment, makes me wonder once again about the future of Softimage at Autodesk:

Softimage is a great addition to Maya or 3ds Max pipelines helping to expand creative capability and increase productivity. {Highlight added - HB}

Replacing Max or Maya with Softimage in an existing pipeline can be a tough sell.
Back at Softimage, we put out Crosswalk to make it easier to add XSI into existing Max/Maya pipelines.

[Hirazi Blue]

You're right, obviously, but it's a strange remark in an official Autodesk Softimage 2011 Press Release nonetheless,
as it looks as if they're marketing Softimage as "mere" pipeline tool in a Max or Maya pipeline...

[Rez007]

You're right, obviously, but it's a strange remark in an official Autodesk Softimage 2011 Press Release nonetheless,
as it looks as if they're marketing Softimage as "mere" pipeline tool in a Max or Maya pipeline...

I agree with you here. After I read that too about it being marketed as an "addition"...it kind of does put these new revisions in a darker light. The only thing that makes me still have hope is that Mark, on his blog post in the Area section of Autodesk, suggested that Softimage surprised everyone at Autodesk in terms of numbers being sold, and that Autodesk plans to put more developers on Softimage. I guess time will tell on where those extra developers' efforts are being focused and how that plays into the marketing of Softimage. Being a former Max user for many years, I see no reason at all why Softimage cannot be THE main player.

[owei]

...guys, why so pessimistic...you might read it that way:

..Softimage is a great addition to Maya or 3ds Max pipelines helping to expand creative capability and increase productivity...

Well said, I think...
So, no one expects to replace Maya or Max pipelines in the near future. It´s a process and SI is taking it´s part, isn´t it..

cheers,
oliver

[Hirazi Blue]

Don't get me wrong: I'm not pessimistic. I'm only pointing out that this remark seem slightly out of place in the document it's in.
Q: So why should you buy this? A: Because it fits snuggly in a Max- or Maya-pipeline...

And anyway: we all know the world will end in 2012. So I'm not pessimistic at all!

[Rez007]

I would say I am more skeptical than pessimistic. I have always hoped for the best for Softimage because, well, I think it is awesome - plain and simple. However, what tends to bother me a little is that I kind of have to just "hope" that Autodesk progresses Softimage in a direction that works for me. I am not suggesting at all that Softimage should replace a Max or Maya pipeline, but it shouldn't be marketed as an "addition." I am not a major studio, and currently I only have a license for Softimage, and that is what I use for my work. I dont have the luxuary of using Maya or Max and saying "hey...I need Softimage to do character work, so let me spend another $3,000.00 plus $800.00 for subscription, just so I can use ICE Kinematics." I chose Softimage as my main package a couple of years ago, because it was the best option for me and I saw the growth potential that it was offering. Lately, I find it very strange when I see multiple threads on forums that people suggest...if it doesn't work in program X, transfer it to program Y, and Z, and hey - there is another program A that does just texturing which works awesome. So my thinking is, either poeple are wealthy, work in a big studio, or they "found" the software to do it.

I bring up the last statement, because if that is how Autodesk plans on moving forward with Softimage, as an addition, then maybe it won't be for me. I guess time will only tell. In the past release as with this one, it is heavly geared towards character animators. If you use Softimage for really anything else, other than Character Animation, then I can definitely see why Softimage 2011 might just seem like an "upgrade" and nothing worthy of a full release.

I am curious to see just how much faster Mental Ray is, however, to offer nothing that is somewhat in a form of a realtime render (like Iray, Octane, VrayRT....etc) from the leading software developer is a little bizaare especially for the era we are in now. Do I have to wait another year? I certianly don't think that I should have to purchase another renderer to get this, when the #1 render on the market is already integrated.

Where is fluid integration that was supposedly being developed be Exocortex? Any new modeling tools? Any option for a unit-of-measure? ICE Hair? (or at leat a better one than currently exists) Library of Architectural Shaders? At least we finally got IES lights -which took long enough, and most of Mental Rays hiddens are now visible....but that doesnt justify a full release.

I just hope that Autodesk starts to fill out Softimage’s other areas too, and not just the Character driven aspects. While ICE is great, it kind of seems like it was a tool that was developed for others to make “plug-ins,” and that Autodesk is banking that the community will come up with solutions rather than them.

This might have seemed like a rant against Softimage, it isn’t, I do really like it a lot, I just am leery about how Autodesk will handle it in the future…

[Maximus]

170 is the total of shaders......we almost alrady have those, they just put out the final number, they actually didnt ADD 170 new shaders.
read the list here

http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/ind ... #Rendering

EDIT owei: please use the URL-tags..! Thanks!

there are some new, but most of them are already present in 2010.
you all are speculating with semantic on the "addition" word, always negative way, addition means it adds to the maya and max package, why you want to put always a negative meaning.

to me this is an interesting release, the lighting and rendering fields were a bit lacking of features, that was the main reason some people switched or took into consideration max.

that said, softimage is probably the king of animation and they are working into something revolutionary like ICE, you cant ask that everything works perfectly and that they implement everything bilions of people want at first glance, those stuff require time.
i'm just glad they realized how old was the light and render in some aspect.

its a signal they are starting to listen to userbase and fix stuff, i know, everyone wants its own tool implemented, but this software has countless tools so its impossible to make everyone happy.
really a positive impression to me so far, i hope they keep working hard in this direction. i was almost switching to 3ds max due to rendering and lighting issue on xsi. so i'm excited

[Rez007]

170 is the total of shaders......we almost alrady have those, they just put out the final number, they actually didnt ADD 170 new shaders.
read the list here

http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/ind ... #Rendering

there are some new, but most of them are already present in 2010.
you all are speculating with semantic on the "addition" word, always negative way, addition means it adds to the maya and max package, why you want to put always a negative meaning.

to me this is an interesting release, the lighting and rendering fields were a bit lacking of features, that was the main reason some people switched or took into consideration max.

that said, softimage is probably the king of animation and they are working into something revolutionary like ICE, you cant ask that everything works perfectly and that they implement everything bilions of people want at first glance, those stuff require time.
i'm just glad they realized how old was the light and render in some aspect.

its a signal they are starting to listen to userbase and fix stuff, i know, everyone wants its own tool implemented, but this software has countless tools so its impossible to make everyone happy.
really a positive impression to me so far, i hope they keep working hard in this direction. i was almost switching to 3ds max due to rendering and lighting issue on xsi. so i'm excited

I agree with everything you say, and I know it takes time to implement new tools. My post wasn't intended to come off in a negative manner, but it was more-or-less to shed a different view on the software in general. I am hoping that with more developers added to the mix that Softimage will strengthen on other areas as well, and put those other aspects on par with its animation toolset.

[Hirazi Blue]

@Rez007
Some replies to your earlier post, not necessarily answers, mind...

Lately, I find it very strange when I see multiple threads on forums that people suggest...if it doesn't work in program X, transfer it to program Y, and Z, and hey - there is another program A that does just texturing which works awesome.

Yes, this is a strange & troublesome development, not good for freelancers or hobbyists (like myself)

If you use Softimage for really anything else, other than Character Animation, then I can definitely see why Softimage 2011 might just seem like an "upgrade" and nothing worthy of a full release.

When I started out with XSI at version 4.2 all was relatively clear (and stayed that way until ICE came along): XSI was the best character animation tool money could buy... By which I only want to say, that (X)SI has always been geared towards character animation...

when the #1 render on the market is already integrated

This whole "Mental Ray is the #1 renderer on the market" seems to have obviously more to do with "installed seats" than user satisfaction.

Where is fluid integration that was supposedly being developed be Exocortex?

Autodesk and Exocortex have apparently parted ways. The details have never been released AFAIK...
Exocortex planned on releasing "SlipstreamVX" as a commercial product in the first quarter of 2010.

ICE Hair?

Well, it's an ever evolving (and IMHO already stunning) toolset maintained by one developer, so give it time!

Library of Architectural Shaders?

"rork" did something like that a while back, you'd have to search the XSIBase

At least we finally got IES lights

But we already had that with the WOM_Archlight addon...

While ICE is great, it kind of seems like it was a tool that was developed for others to make “plug-ins,” and that Autodesk is banking that the community will come up with solutions rather than them.

That truly sounds a bit too negative, I'm afraid... ;)

[pimeto]

I totally agree with what Rez007 sayd!!!
I dont want to sound aggressive or to fight with some of you guys, but i really hate Autodesk. They are a company that didnt create any of the soft they sell (Autocad maybe but its uncertain). Monopolism is nothing good, especially when the guys running the company are all with black suits!

I never worked on MAya, but from what i hear from colleagues working on Maya and Max, Mental ray for XSi is the most crappy version of all... Obviously they didnt develop it equally with the versions for Maya and Max.
But this is not Autodesk fault only - Avid didnt do anything for so many years! Yes, they developed ICE because of the user demand for quality particle systems and etc. but considering the render ... Nothing!
Softimage maybe was pulling them back, i dont know, and maybe this is the reason they sold XSI so cheap!!!

I cant stand one thing, and one thing only!
How can such a wonderful software as XSI dont have good renderrer and a program, that has nothing more to offer - Modo, has one of the best renderers on the market ?! I wanna say that Modo has the best one, but i am not familiar with all the renderers out there

Btw, my colleague recently changed his workflow and added Modo - not Maya, nor Max!
Model, unwrap, animate > export to Modo, texture, shade, light - render!
Btw, you can export rigged animations from XSI Something that totally kild us from joy!


Btw, i want to say sorry for my crappy english

[Hirazi Blue]

If Mental Ray still is the mighty renderer it once was, is one thing... ;)
The Mental Ray version in Softimage 2011 at least seems to be in sync with the version shipped with Max 2011 and Maya 2011. Part of the set of new shaders finally seem to bring all the previously "hidden" goodies of MR to Softimage. So that's looking like a solid improvement to me...
(But as I've said before, I'm merely a hobbyist...)
And the whole concept of the "rendering sandbox", while still vague, sounds like a very interesting addition and could prove to become the basis for "many more hours of sheer rendering fun"