Coping with the "depression"

[FXDude]

[...]
Everybody has his/her own set of priorities when choosing a replacement for Softimage and some companies do give the impression they are willing to listen to Softimage users. But in the end these products probably will not change one bit to actually accommodate the Softimage user base. You've got to judge them on their current features, not on their promises.
[...]

but thanks, this does help fight off my own depression a bit...

I think I would partly agree to that, since while there may be a strong tendency for various solutions
to somehow *mostly* remain what they have always been in regards to each's main pros & cons,
.. a void does create to a certain extent, some sort of will to fill.
So to what extent? remains to be seen. (we might be surprised)

And I also strongly suspect that we'll definitely be seeing SI around for a while,
considering WHEN such changes in other solutions would materialize IF they do,
as we shall see in the coming years.

@Pcd; But what I would mostly agree to, is Hirazi's language, tone and attitude when making his quite valid points.
(As yours may otherwise also be quite valid ;) )

[Bellsey]

Well, autodesk guys are alive and well. Let's answer them, starting with Belsey. It was the presentation witch took place in Holland at the end of 2008, in Amsterdam. Funny thing how autodesk offered discounts for max and maya but not for Softimage. Somehow you missed the biggest part from the entire story; autodesk offered us Softimage users maya instead of Softimage right after they've purchased the software. And don't be afraid, i'm not going to shoot myself in a foot, i already budgeted Houdini for my business so i don't give a shit about autodesk anymore.

Ok, so I actually checked back and I think there's probably a very simple explanation for this and nothing to do with some big conspiracy to supress XSI (as it was called at the time). Truth is, I wasn't aware of any such event in Amsterdam and the reason for this was (I believe) that the event had probably been in place and planned for, before the Softimage acquisition was even announced. And it's also likely that the promotional discount you mention was also in place before the announcment as well.
When acquistions take place, there are strict rules around pricing and the various activities linked to it, things aren't just copied and pasted from one thing to another.
So, I'm not saying that's what exactly happened, but (imho) that's what I think probably did.

As for everything else, I'm not even going to try and offer a view, because I think you're already made you mind up and what I say probably won't change that. Which is fair enough to me. If you feel the need to never use Autodesk products again, then that's also your choice and I wish you well on your future endeavours.
It's a dangerous thing to 'never say never' though, as you never know when it might come back and haunt you.

[FXDude]

Ok, so I actually checked back and I think there's probably a very simple explanation for this and nothing to do with some big conspiracy to supress XSI (as it was called at the time). Truth is, I wasn't aware of any such event in Amsterdam and the reason for this was (I believe) that the event had probably been in place and planned for, before the Softimage acquisition was even announced. And it's also likely that the promotional discount you mention was also in place before the announcment as well.

Hi sorry I don't mean to be difficult, especially that I know you ultimately mean well,
and frankly I don't think it has to do with that particular event in particular.

But can we really say that any reductions in SI's portrayal, thus affecting it's relative (yet formerly firm) prominence,
have been purely theoretical? (or otherwise possibly unfounded?),
and consequently, that it's fate has been entirely (or mostly) coincidental?

When we consider what the end goal is for absorbing a solution *addressing roughly the same ends* as (1 or more) products offered by the acquiring company.. at 99.9% of the time ..
(hence the immediate sentiment when the news came)
.. can we reasonably think that SI was somehow possibly an exception to that?
(especially considering more than a few notable shortcomings.. and of course ..how things actually turned-out)

While of course the thought of SI -NOT- being part of that remaining 0.01% ..
(technically) indeed remains 'just' a theory.

Thanks

[Pooby]

It's a dangerous thing to 'never say never' though, as you never know when it might come back and haunt you.

Not as bad though as simply saying 'never'.

Never saying never will pretty much keep you in neutral territory.

[gfxman]

Well, autodesk guys are alive and well. Let's answer them, starting with Belsey. It was the presentation witch took place in Holland at the end of 2008, in Amsterdam. Funny thing how autodesk offered discounts for max and maya but not for Softimage. Somehow you missed the biggest part from the entire story; autodesk offered us Softimage users maya instead of Softimage right after they've purchased the software. And don't be afraid, i'm not going to shoot myself in a foot, i already budgeted Houdini for my business so i don't give a shit about autodesk anymore.

Ok, so I actually checked back and I think there's probably a very simple explanation for this and nothing to do with some big conspiracy to supress XSI (as it was called at the time). Truth is, I wasn't aware of any such event in Amsterdam and the reason for this was (I believe) that the event had probably been in place and planned for, before the Softimage acquisition was even announced. And it's also likely that the promotional discount you mention was also in place before the announcment as well.
When acquistions take place, there are strict rules around pricing and the various activities linked to it, things aren't just copied and pasted from one thing to another.
So, I'm not saying that's what exactly happened, but (imho) that's what I think probably did.

As for everything else, I'm not even going to try and offer a view, because I think you're already made you mind up and what I say probably won't change that. Which is fair enough to me. If you feel the need to never use Autodesk products again, then that's also your choice and I wish you well on your future endeavours.
It's a dangerous thing to 'never say never' though, as you never know when it might come back and haunt you.

Can't this man be banned, after years and years of this bullshit?
Please admin, he doesn't deserve to stay between softimage users.

[Hirazi Blue]

Disagreement, even strong disagreement, as such isn't a reason to ban someone IMHO.
Publicly calling for someone to be banned isn't very nice either, BTW.
;)

[Bellsey]

Well, autodesk guys are alive and well. Let's answer them, starting with Belsey. It was the presentation witch took place in Holland at the end of 2008, in Amsterdam. Funny thing how autodesk offered discounts for max and maya but not for Softimage. Somehow you missed the biggest part from the entire story; autodesk offered us Softimage users maya instead of Softimage right after they've purchased the software. And don't be afraid, i'm not going to shoot myself in a foot, i already budgeted Houdini for my business so i don't give a shit about autodesk anymore.

Ok, so I actually checked back and I think there's probably a very simple explanation for this and nothing to do with some big conspiracy to supress XSI (as it was called at the time). Truth is, I wasn't aware of any such event in Amsterdam and the reason for this was (I believe) that the event had probably been in place and planned for, before the Softimage acquisition was even announced. And it's also likely that the promotional discount you mention was also in place before the announcment as well.
When acquistions take place, there are strict rules around pricing and the various activities linked to it, things aren't just copied and pasted from one thing to another.
So, I'm not saying that's what exactly happened, but (imho) that's what I think probably did.

As for everything else, I'm not even going to try and offer a view, because I think you're already made you mind up and what I say probably won't change that. Which is fair enough to me. If you feel the need to never use Autodesk products again, then that's also your choice and I wish you well on your future endeavours.
It's a dangerous thing to 'never say never' though, as you never know when it might come back and haunt you.

Can't this man be banned, after years and years of this bullshit?
Please admin, he doesn't deserve to stay between softimage users.

ok, you want to ban me, may I ask why?
Was it what I wrote, or just me in general?

People might not like what I've written, but if someone has made some wild accusations about Softimage and Autodesk, then I'm within my right to respond with some simple facts that might easily explain the situation and any context behind it. And that has always been my intention where possible when posting to this forum, I'm in no way trying to lie and deceive anyone.

[grendizer]

You know Bellsey, Luc Eric, it's understandable you're defending the company you're working at... but it's not a noble cause.
I mean, what are you fighting for, really?
When Softimage was struggling against its competition, it was fighting the good fight, because Softimage was an inspiring company and XSI a hell of a great 3D app. All the community was behind you.
Autodesk is NOT an inspiring company. You really have no idea why Autodesk is so unpopular?

What would you think if you were at our place?
You're both ex-Softimage guys, doesn't it affect you to see XSI die?

I'll show you what's a noble fight:
You both take the elevator to the top floor of your work place, walk this long corridor untill you arrive at a door on which it's written "Carl Bass".
You talk to the guy untill he changes his mind.
THAT would be fighting the good fight.

[owei]

Please stay on topic and don't start another discussion we already had in several other threads. To remind you, this one is about "Figthing the Depression" you might experience caused by the death of Softimage. Bash AD elsewhere please, though the anger about this company is a very big one.

THANKS

[Bullit]

Bashing Autodesk in some cases might fight the depression no?

[owei]

Well...yes, but this is not the thread for the "bashing" itself! You might say here, that bashing AD is healthful, but bash them in the appropriate thread, please ;) On the other hand, everything about how bad AD did to us is said already...so I don´t think any discussion about the issue itself brings us any further. AD thinks they did all right...so many good points were made on the list and here on the form. Good arguments and lot of suggestions etc etc. Nothing made them think again. So move on. It´s time to look into the future and how you deal with it...

[Hirazi Blue]

Owei is right, this is not the time and place for such a discussion
At any rate: I should have made this clear yesterday, but I didn't, as I tried to make a soothing remark, not a heavy Admin remark, but it still bears repeating: direct personal attacks (of the calling someone a liar variety and such) will not be tolerated here.

[angus_davidson]

I think the best way to get over the new is to keep on working. I think we are at a stage where any further loosening of the restrictions are over.

What makes me feel better is realising that AD have manage to unite an industry in a way no one has been able to before. Its something they will regret later down the line.

For now its focusing on getting through the next few years using Maya for our classes until such time as there is a significant change in the market share for us to move to something else.

At the end of the day its a question of Trust. Your choice needs to be one you can live with going forward.

[FXDude]

Disagreement, even strong disagreement, as such isn't a reason to ban someone IMHO.
Publicly calling for someone to be banned isn't very nice either, BTW.
;)

+1

[FabricPaul]

From the point of acquisition it took a while for Autodesk sales people to take over that part of the business - I think I was left to my own devices trying to sell Softimage until January 2009 (at which point I was moved to selling middleware until i shifted to product management a few months later). Meanwhile, the Autodesk sales people were not getting compensated on Softimage sales - the reality is that most sales people are coin operated: the compensation plan defines what they will and won't try to sell you.

So your experience was a product of the AD sales plan and reseller incentives. There was no strategy to 'suppress' XSI - but as of acquisition I think there were only two Softimage sales people not let go. That meant that everything was suborned to the regular AD sales people - with no training on how to sell XSI and no compensation if they did sell it. It's quite easy to see how that would pan out. If 30-40% of your salary is based on how much Maya/Max you sell, what are you going to do when someone inquires about XSI? You'll try and get them to buy Maya, even if that's not in the interests of the customer. If you're a reseller, then the margin you'll get from Autodesk in the next fiscal year is based on how much you manage to sell _this_ year - so again, if your agreed plan with AD doesn't include Softimage then it's not in your interests to sell it vs trying to convert someone to Maya.

Lastly - even after comp plans included Softimage sales, converting studios to Maya would pay a lot more than keeping them on XSI subscription. If you're trying to understand the motivation of sales people, follow the money.

All of this is to say that I saw no plan or directive to suppress Softimage sales, but the effect of Autodesk buying Softimage was to suppress Softimage sales due to how the business is structured. That's even before factoring in customers' concerns about long term viability of XSI in the Autodesk portfolio (which was a huge factor imo).

[Pooby]

Right from the moment xsi was bought out, all I heard was 'that's the end of xsi then' and ' they only bought it to kill it' .
I disputed this many a time both on forums and to individuals. I just couldn't concieve that such a genius-designed piece of software could suffer that fate.

The fact it came true is more than a coincidence.
A company policy that can be so easily and widely predicted is as close to proof that there is no guiding vision. It just follows the money with no respect for either the work that has gone into the software it buys or the people who's work is centred around using it.

I don't care if things have been said already. I'm in no mood to accept, lie down and shut up.