Anti-Autodesk Strategies

[luchifer]

Im sorry luceric, but Autodesk did drop the ball.. you cant blame users for not using XSI when Autodesk didnt promote the software, even Mark Shoennagel, from the blog Planet Softimage in the Area, posted one article every three months, six months or even one a year (it should have been more, and related to software, not traveling on a vw). The Autodesk youtube channel, https://www.youtube.com/user/SoftimageHowTos, have as much tutorials as I have fingers, the software manual didnt have tutorials, so will ask this (not that it matters anymore), how are new users supposed to learn to use XSI? Maya and Max have tutorials on the help menu that allowes them to start toying with the software. The Area never had an ICE Compound download section, as requested per many users.

And Im not even talking about showing XSI as a companion, lack of display on front page and lack of news about plugins on the Autodesk Softimage facebook page. And Lagoa, while excellent, was undecifrable to new users.

Edit.. I just check again the youtube channel and Is sorted as follows:

Learning Maya for Softimage Users
Learning 3dsmax for Softimage Users
Getting Started with Softimage

I think that shows the true Autodesk intentions from the beginning.

[Bellsey]

Many can wave the pointed finger at the lack of marketing, and although it can help, even with the best in the world, it won't always drive people to adopt something.

Luc-Erics post sums up alot. When Chinny posted to the list about Suites and the potential growth for Softimage, he wasn't joking. As someone who would spend alot of his time on the road, doing events and demoing to customers, even after all this time, Softimage and ICE was still a tough sell for alot of Maya and Max studios.
There was never an issue of people not liking the software or the technology, but for example if there was a Max studio that had Thinking Particles, and FumeFX, they simply didn't see the need to take Softimage and ICE.

Of course, many will say but Soft wasn't just about ICE and particles, and they'd be right, but again pitching Softimage as another 3D software to a studio that has amassed a level of skill, expertise and reputation using something else, isn't so easy either.

[luchifer]

But if the market didnt adopted Softimage, why there are many examples of movies and advertising made with Softimage or companies using it? (on top of my head Lego movie and The Mill)

[angus_davidson]

Of course, many will say but Soft wasn't just about ICE and particles, and they'd be right, but again pitching Softimage as another 3D software to a studio that has amassed a level of skill, expertise and reputation using something else, isn't so easy either.

Which is exactly what AD is expecting people to do now but going from SI to MAya / Max ;) .

SI strength was always its workflow. ie If it takes 30 mins to do in maya you can do it in 15mins in SI. Less if your good at ICE
I can honestly say I never saw any AD stuff that ever pushed that view. If you tell them that instead of spending 500 man hours creating a shot you could do it in 300 man hours that speaks directly to their bottom line. That one point alone would have made the world of difference.

[Rez007]

Many can wave the pointed finger at the lack of marketing, and although it can help, even with the best in the world, it won't always drive people to adopt something.

Luc-Erics post sums up alot. When Chinny posted to the list about Suites and the potential growth for Softimage, he wasn't joking. As someone who would spend alot of his time on the road, doing events and demoing to customers, even after all this time, Softimage and ICE was still a tough sell for alot of Maya and Max studios.
There was never an issue of people not liking the software or the technology, but for example if there was a Max studio that had Thinking Particles, and FumeFX, they simply didn't see the need to take Softimage and ICE.

Of course, many will say but Soft wasn't just about ICE and particles, and they'd be right, but again pitching Softimage as another 3D software to a studio that has amassed a level of skill, expertise and reputation using something else, isn't so easy either.

Marketing just doesn't "help," it is a massive force in driving exposure, and Autodesk did an extremely poor job on this. I am glad to hear that you demoed Softimage and were doing events as well. However, that has a very small reach on new users. Switching people from one product to another is very hard to do, and I do not doubt at all the effort that you have put into it. Autodesk, however, could have opened up their pocket book a bit more and done a lot more visual marketing campaigns - i.e. websites, ads, social presence, better big event recognition at Siggraph, etc... something that has a mass market approach/exposure... They should have also pushed it in the schools. If Autodesk wanted a "Houdini killer" they should have done a lot more than they did, marketing-wise.

[Rez007]

SI strength was always its workflow. ie If it takes 30 mins to do in maya you can do it in 15mins in SI. Less if your good at ICE
I can honestly say I never saw any AD stuff that ever pushed that view. If you tell them that instead of spending 500 man hours creating a shot you could do it in 300 man hours that speaks directly to their bottom line. That one point alone would have made the world of difference.

+1. That does have a direct impact business and nowadays with budgets being really tight, could have proven a good strategy.

[luchifer]

About marketing, I have friends who have small business and they post way more in their facebook pages /twitter than Autodesk with Softimage. Just see the posting dates, Autodesk Maya on facebook post up to three posts on each day, while Autodesk Softimage does it one every 5 or 15 days.

It was never a fair competition, makes me sad, angry.

[Superpositivo]

Of course, Bellsey, but anyway, again, there was not martketing at all, for Softimage. This cannot be put in doubt. It's ridiculus how many words are spent to justify the retirement of Softimage when since 5 years the first thing AD had to do is to SHOW their new package arrived into the family. Is that ever happened? ... Please...

Also, a software is not only the studios. Because a studio is made of guys who learned a software.
Guys with the intention to attend a school requesting to learn a certain software.
In a world based on internet if they never find anything about that, how could you expect one would like to learn it and then becoming the next customer???...If a school doesn't have guys willing to learn it, how could the school itself have it to teach it? It's a loop, that could be broken with a little of healthy marketing.

I mean, how much could it cost posting periodically pages on the website with images, nice words and.. .that desired fucking word of "SOFTIMAGE" under "products"???????
10 dollars?... 50? .. 100??... Take it!.. 200!

Most of the studios have a rivisited Maya, used as a shell, so when the guys coming out from the school, seating in front of that computer is still familiar with that, instead of a period learning a completely new software. Or maybe a studio is prepared to give some months of training, to everyone employed, on a software before starting to be productive?...

So, again, if anyone would be interested in Softimage, and you tell him/her "it's and AD product", they go on the AD website and surely it seems like AD never had Softimage, because it's buried in the website that only if you really really really want to find it, you'll find it, but in this special situation THAT means that you already don't need to go in the AD website to learn about what Softimage is.
You have to go in Products, and ... nothing. There is Autocad, Autcad Lt, ALL Autocad and ther rest. 3 times when you need actually one, and leave a little space for Softimage.
You need to go in ALL PRODUCTS, and before seeing the word Softimage you need to scroll it down to the end.
And the perception is that it's not that great software, afterall..
And which is the very starting point to promote a software you saying you want to keep alive (let's LOL, folks!) if not your own website????

If you want to show something you say you "believe", you show it to people! Not only to the studios, they already know about, just they can't change immediately all the pipeline. It costs millions changing a pipeline for a new software, than paying teams of new programmers to creat tools.

Is this marketing? Please I want to learn!...

I wonder how many words are there to still defend this really stupid comedy about "we tried!"...

[Bellsey]

Of course, many will say but Soft wasn't just about ICE and particles, and they'd be right, but again pitching Softimage as another 3D software to a studio that has amassed a level of skill, expertise and reputation using something else, isn't so easy either.

Which is exactly what AD is expecting people to do now but going from SI to MAya / Max ;) .

SI strength was always its workflow. ie If it takes 30 mins to do in maya you can do it in 15mins in SI. Less if your good at ICE
I can honestly say I never saw any AD stuff that ever pushed that view. If you tell them that instead of spending 500 man hours creating a shot you could do it in 300 man hours that speaks directly to their bottom line. That one point alone would have made the world of difference.

Because, that's how many Maya/Max guys saw it. but in all the time I've demoed Softimage, even pre-AD, there was never anyone who didn't like the software, tech or couldn't see the potential benefits. However despite this, it wasn't easy for people to simply adopt. If it was, then they would have.
We could easily lead the horse to water, but never make it drink.

[luchifer]

Of course, many will say but Soft wasn't just about ICE and particles, and they'd be right, but again pitching Softimage as another 3D software to a studio that has amassed a level of skill, expertise and reputation using something else, isn't so easy either.

Which is exactly what AD is expecting people to do now but going from SI to MAya / Max ;) .

SI strength was always its workflow. ie If it takes 30 mins to do in maya you can do it in 15mins in SI. Less if your good at ICE
I can honestly say I never saw any AD stuff that ever pushed that view. If you tell them that instead of spending 500 man hours creating a shot you could do it in 300 man hours that speaks directly to their bottom line. That one point alone would have made the world of difference.

Because, that's how many Maya/Max guys saw it. but in all the time I've demoed Softimage, even pre-AD, there was never anyone who didn't like the software, tech or couldn't see the potential benefits. However despite this, it wasn't easy for people to simply adopt. If it was, then they would have.
We could easily lead the horse to water, but never make it drink.

Yeah, without tutorials you cant learn to ride the horse. Try to use Lightwave, Zbrush or Houdini without instructions and you'll know what it feels. I spent like 400$ and six months of Digital Tutors trying to understand XSI, because, again.. no tutorials anywhere!

And just a thought... was so hard to show new customers (not people working in the industry) that Autodesk bought the software that made Jurassic Park? How many Oscar-winning movies was Softimage involved?

[luchifer]

Just, please, show me a good, Autodesk related source of tutorials for XSI and I will stop complaining. Because, I will say this, Pixologic and Sidefx destroys Autodesk Softimage Youtube Channel.

edit.. Face Robot for example, real amazing, I never understood it because I found like 4 learning videos in all internet.

[luchifer]

I had always thought (and still do) that XSI was the best software ever made for users who already knew how to use it.

[Bellsey]

Just, please, show me a good, Autodesk related source of tutorials for XSI and I will stop complaining. Because, I will say this, Pixologic and Sidefx destroys Autodesk Softimage Youtube Channel.

edit.. Face Robot for example, real amazing, I never understood it because I found like 4 learning videos in all internet.

Just a few months after acquisition, most (if not all) of the official XSI tutorials of the time were uploaded to the AREA. There's at least 20 pages of them. Ok, the AREA has had its fair share of criticism, but they are there and easy to find.

And if you googled 'face robot tutorial', the wiki pages does appear and there have been more than 20 videos there for years.

[Bullit]

It is strange that when Autodesk people here say that it was difficult to push Softimage ICE when we see in what ways it was developed it just doesn't fit :

Lagoa -obscure and difficult -; subpar ICE modeling sometimes incorrectly promoted as if it was a scatter system, crowd ... it is all niches with very difficult widespread adoption.
Instead sound effects, mograph style animation, push for common artist instead of TD ease of use would have made it a step if indeed wide adoption was the objective.

So what we have is a proposed objective: widespread use that doesn't fit the actions.

To promote procedural animation ICE it needs to be shown how to deal with lots objects or effects easily. That is the main reason for it.

Well, there is a lot of particles and smoke, and also motion graphics being done everywhere, so I've could dream imho. Ice didn't have to just be about granular- level programming

Yes, today even an architectural visualization has particles. 5 years or so ago it didn't.
I was recently in project that asked for a fountain, i made it easy in 3ds Max Pflow due to experience i got with ICE with emitters starting at different times but simple emitter rotations and so on. And of course since it appeared so easy the boss then asked for animating the fountain like this, with dozens different rotations, different strength, timing etc.

And i was... you should have listening to me about by my Softimage ICE advice...

Sometimes i think also maybe ICE appeared too soon for the market.

As someone who would spend alot of his time on the road, doing events and demoing to customers, even after all this time, Softimage and ICE was still a tough sell for alot of Maya and Max studios.

Many 3dsMax artists talk now how they want ICE... any discussion about the future of 3ds Max includes Softimage ICE. There is a generalized fed up in 3ds Max users - i know i am between them - about the program.

[Bullit]

Just a few months after acquisition, most (if not all) of the official XSI tutorials of the time were uploaded to the AREA. There's at least 20 pages of them. Ok, the AREA has had its fair share of criticism, but they are there and easy to find.

Manny in is channel has the certification v7.x tutorials. Nothing in Area.

[Bellsey]

Just a few months after acquisition, most (if not all) of the official XSI tutorials of the time were uploaded to the AREA. There's at least 20 pages of them. Ok, the AREA has had its fair share of criticism, but they are there and easy to find.

Manny in is channel has the certification v7.x tutorials. Nothing in Area.

Adam Sale's and Craig Slagel's v7.x ICE tutorials are on the AREA though.