What about Softimaging Blender? SoftBlender?

[luceric]

Expensive product; not marketed well; if known, there was strong competition within the same company (so logically why go for the "underdog") to justify it, etc etc..

Softimage was just 450$ for something like 3 years and very few people bought it compared to the market size. it had had 25 years of marketting before autodesk came along.

[MauricioPC]

Softimage was just 450$ for something like 3 years and very few people bought it compared to the market size. it had had 25 years of marketting before autodesk came along.

I guess it's more of a problem that few schools taught Softimage and not the price. C4D is very expensive and there's a LOT of users using it (and because it's very appealing for designers).

I was enrolled in a post-grad course here in 3D Animation that always was Softimage. When it was time to begin (I think 2012) they've changed to Maya and I decided to not go through. My intention was to learn Softimage also (a friend of mine had made this course and told me the training was good).

One of the bigger animation schools here also changed from Softimage to Maya in 2012 (if I'm not mistaken) and of the big animation/cg/production companies in Brazil, there's only 3 (more or less) still using Softimage.

Gustavo (from the forums, but I always misspell his last name) studied at Melies and it was Softimage at his time. It's all Maya from 2012/2013 if I'm not mistaken.

[Shenan]

Draise, Cinderella was exactly the character I thought of in relation to Softimage when this news broke out. Except that without the happy ending.

luceric, true, that's when I first bought XSI, Foundation 4.2. Then later I bought XSI Advanced 5.0 (Academic), when I enrolled in a college program on it.

Mauricio, also true. When I first picked up XSI I had a hard time finding training materials for it (2004). There were like zero books on it, and IIRC maybe only one or two vendors that made training DVDs. No youtube or other online tutorials back then either. Then in '05 or so I discovered that a community college near me offered an animation program online, using XSI or Maya. Then two semesters after I started they dropped both and went Max only. I quit the program, very disappointed, because XSI was the software that I liked and really wanted to learn, not Maya or Max.

Anyway, I think I've derailed this thread enough with my question. Thank you all for your answers! Back to the main topic, how Blender will save us.

[luceric]

definitely, the network effect is hugely important. That's why no body is using the photoshop alternatives.

btw: youtube only opened in 2005

[McNistor]

It seems like Softimage was in the hands of incompetent marketers all its life.

[MauricioPC]

I don't think Softimage was poorly market. Maybe it was bad exposed, but I remember the site and reel and they were amazing and better than what Autodesk did for Max and Maya.

[bb3d]

I would recommend this article first for everybody who wants to join the endless discussion about Blender's UI:

http://code.blender.org/index.php/2013/ ... g-blender/

After reading it, there is no hope for radical changes in the near future. They simply don't have somebody like a "UI designer" who takes care about every new feature being implemented in an intuitive way. The UI will improve in small steps but based on input from artists who are actually using Blender and understanding it's interaction philosophy.
Therefore, the best way seems to be, to learn Blender, to use it for small projects, to find out it's strong and weak areas, becoming a part of the community and then trying to give the developers constructive input.

Newcomer (<20 posts) alert: please use the URL tags - HB

[iamVFX]

The first release of blender was in 1995. Nineteen years ago. I got a CD Rom with Blender at siggraph in 1998. Even back then there was already a promise that the next version of blender would have a UI revamp that would make everyone happy. Same with GIMP. But you'll always hear people pontificate to you that the team is listening and they're just about to do make everything already in the next one, that open source is awesome and either just as good or way more advanced. One of the project on the roadmap for Blender 2.7 is a minimal move to OpenGL 2.1. That's only a hint of how much old shit there is under there.

Tell us how much old shit Maya has, oh, you can't, and its source code is closed, so it would be better if you kindly could shut your mouth and pay respect to the software that exists and evolve that long without parasiting on industry.

Every software has flaws, whether it bugs, slow perfomance or inconvenient workflows. Some of them are terrible, some of them acceptable. Blender by no means is the greatest software ever made, but it definitly the most complex one from graphically oriented open source projects. The amount of work and money is not even close to what "big" companies like Autodesk can provide. What Blender can give you is a choice. You CAN create beautiful images with small team or even by yourself more effectively than with proprietary DCC's, because they were meant to integrate into pipeline of other studios to suck their money, not to give a variety of tools for freelance artists.

What gets me every time is the stupidity of people who work on Autodesk. Only stupid people could kill the package without providing same or close set of features in other products to make transition of their users more fluid. I would laugh my ass of if Maya still have that bug with custom hotkeys. A year has passed, is it that hard to program an equivalent Keyboard Mapping window (that Softimage had a decade ago, speaking of old shit) in Maya? Oh, rigth, who cares about individual artists, they're not the source of money for such a "big" company like Autodesk, give them something pretty and effortless, I don't know... DirectX ubershader or grease pencil tool, whatever.

So, speaking of Softimaging Blender, I decided to do it myself. Next week, on my free time, I will port Softimage's Keyboard Mapping as a standalone Windows and Linux app for Blender, for free. Just because it's that easy to do and pretty effective in attracting newcomers so less of them would lose their time with Autodesk Maya.

[Nox]

About hotkey bug, I remember doing it this way:
1. Remove default hotkey.
2. Save and close Maya.
3. Start again and map a hotkey, than it works.

[luceric]

The first release of blender was in 1995. Nineteen years ago. I got a CD Rom with Blender at siggraph in 1998. Even back then there was already a promise that the next version of blender would have a UI revamp that would make everyone happy. Same with GIMP. But you'll always hear people pontificate to you that the team is listening and they're just about to do make everything already in the next one, that open source is awesome and either just as good or way more advanced. One of the project on the roadmap for Blender 2.7 is a minimal move to OpenGL 2.1. That's only a hint of how much old shit there is under there.

Tell us how much old shit Maya has, oh, you can't, and its source code is closed, so it would be better if you kindly could shut your mouth and pay respect to the software that exists and evolve that long without parasiting on industry.

Every software has flaws, whether it bugs, slow perfomance or inconvenient workflows. Some of them are terrible, some of them acceptable. Blender by no means is the greatest software ever made, but it definitly the most complex one from graphically oriented open source projects. The amount of work and money is not even close to what "big" companies like Autodesk can provide. What Blender can give you is a choice. You CAN create beautiful images with small team or even by yourself more effectively than with proprietary DCC's, because they were meant to integrate into pipeline of other studios to suck their money, not to give a variety of tools for freelance artists.

What gets me every time is the stupidity of people who work on Autodesk. Only stupid people could kill the package without providing same or close set of features in other products to make transition of their users more fluid. I would laugh my ass of if Maya still have that bug with custom hotkeys. A year has passed, is it that hard to program an equivalent Keyboard Mapping window (that Softimage had a decade ago, speaking of old shit) in Maya? Oh, rigth, who cares about individual artists, they're not the source of money for such a "big" company like Autodesk, give them something pretty and effortless, I don't know... DirectX ubershader or grease pencil tool, whatever.

So, speaking of Softimaging Blender, I decided to do it myself. Next week, on my free time, I will port Softimage's Keyboard Mapping as a standalone Windows and Linux app for Blender, for free. Just because it's that easy to do and pretty effective in attracting newcomers so less of them would lose their time with Autodesk Maya.

That's a pretty standard reply to any criticism about Blender. They almost write themselves, there should be a PHP script to generate them.
1) talk about freedom, especially from evil corporations
2) link to movie made with Blender to show that "it can be used", as if people have never made animation with terrible tools, including drawing directly on film with a marker.
3) throw in some form of personal attack (more to adsk employees in general here)
4) distract the crowd with an anecdote about another software
5) close with some promise to start to use the software more or contribute to blender

People rarely defend on its own merit other than it's free - people like the idea of Blender as oppose to the software.

If after 20 years of open development, all the open source freedom and contribution potentially from thousands of smart people at studios and universities around the world who are said to use Blender your are still failing at producing a super modern and great software, you simply fail at Open Source. Even if the Blender team was just two guys sharing on keyboard, in 20 years they should have up with something that everyone talks about as super cool technology or workflow. As the Americans say, "shit, or get off the pot" It's high time for people to stop making excuses for Blender. No evil corporate conspiracy or market forces has held back Blender. It's been given PLENTY of time to shine. There is no open source project this old out there that needs so much excuses and defending.

[angus_davidson]

That's a pretty standard reply to any criticism about Blender. They almost write themselves, there should be a PHP script to generate them.
1) talk about freedom, especially from evil corporations
2) link to movie made with Blender to show that "it can be used", as if people have never made animation with terrible tools, including drawing directly on film with a marker.
3) throw in some form of personal attack (more to adsk employees in general here)
4) distract the crowd with an anecdote about another software
5) close with some promise to start to use the software more or contribute to blender

People rarely defend on its own merit other than it's free - people like the idea of Blender as oppose to the software.

If after 20 years of open development, all the open source freedom and contribution potentially from thousands of smart people at studios and universities around the world who are said to use Blender your are still failing at producing a super modern and great software, you simply fail at Open Source. Even if the Blender team was just two guys sharing on keyboard, in 20 years they should have up with something that everyone talks about as super cool technology or workflow. As the Americans say, "shit, or get off the pot" It's high time for people to stop making excuses for Blender. No evil corporate conspiracy or market forces has held back Blender. It's been given PLENTY of time to shine. There is no open source project this old out there that needs so much excuses and defending.

Lets see. Blender has had and lets be generous here about fraction of a percent of the resources that maya has had over a similar time frame and yet you expect it to be the same shining example that Maya is ? And when its comes to Shit or get off the pot, both Maya's and Softimages records are not particularly good either. Buying plugin's ramming them in and forgetting them is pretty much the status quo.

I would say. Hi Pot , meet Kettle

[Mathaeus]

t

That's a pretty standard reply to any criticism about Blender. They almost write themselves, there should be a PHP script to generate them.

well I just wanted to say something similar about yours 'Sigraph 1998 CD' story (sometimes, it's 1999, to be fair) - but in opposite direction.
At least, your vision, what open source software should be, it's not realistic, imho. As far as I understand, you expect them to write the usable code, free for you to use, and sell by your corporation - or what...

[iamVFX]

(flame war was here)

[Shenan]

Whoah, iamvfx and luceric, two kinda extreme posts from you guys.

Yes, some Blender fans can be insistent, sometimes strident, and give a negative impression. On the other hand, however, you can't just dismiss Blender's accomplishments. It's one of the more successful open-source projects after all, and probably the most successful open-source graphics software around, definitely the most successful open-source 3D animation software.

I wonder if Softimage might have fared better if its community had evangelized it more like Blender's community does and not let a great software languish in obscurity.

[Hirazi Blue]

I wonder if Softimage might have fared better if its community had evangelized it more like Blender's community does and not let a great software languish in obscurity.

That's a very cheap shot...

[Shenan]

Sorry you took it that way, Hirazi. It was not meant to be a cheap shot at all. It was just an honest question, and something I alluded to in one of my earlier posts: how much responsibility does a software community bear if a great software isn't as successful in the market as it should be? Is it all down to the vendor only? It's just an honest curiosity I have, based on my perceptions over the years. I feel like XSI always seemed to be hidden from view in the general 3D websphere. It seems to me now that the more experienced users could have been shouting from the rooftops how great it was over the years, the way that they are doing now after Autodesk made the announcement. Is this a warning for all other software communities? My perception could, of course, be completely inaccurate. I haven't been a big participant in the Softimage community in the past, but more in the general communities like CG Talk.

I hope my question and perspective make more sense now.