A more open + crowd funded extra, community driven Softimage

[Nolan]

ho you're saying that you would crowd fund individual features rather than a create one big genera pool of money to keep the development going. OK, I had not understood it that way.

The more you open it up, the more costs reduce, the more development gets done, the more profit Autodesk makes. Versus centralized and co-ordinated planned but expensive development.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think the user ends up paying a lot with this model and I think you should try to see how many users and how much money they'd be willing to pay. My theory is that the user base is small and it's a small subset of those who want to pay even more money on Softimage. And the smaller the number of people, the more each of them need to pay. But this is just my personal opinion, I can be proven wrong, of course.

My question though is why the take up of apps like Cinema4D and Modo. If you can resolve that issue you have a larger user base. I believe its because people left Softimage 3D for Maya and just like people who left some prior platform for Windows they are not going to easily take another risk. Unless there is no risk.

If everyone would get the funded features in the general advantage pack later, IMHO that could worsens the "game theory" dynamics since most people can just wait for other people to pay.

You could pay a lesser amount for later delivery in the crowd funding process. It would not be possible for some features and no doubt complicate others.

I'm sure many people would pay 20$ to encourage a project to get alembic in XSI, but that's not how it's going to cost and it surrrrrely is going to get tiresome for people to pay here and there for things they think they should get for free.

A balancing act for sure.

Pay both subscription AND crowd funded features? I'm not sure the would make the "user base would grow rapidly". I think that would fizzle out quickly. I assume these people want autodesk to continue XSI, not pay an external makeup artist to put shiny makeup on a zombie.

Well if it could never die. It would be reinvigorated.

Cast your votes. Not for what's probable but what's possible!

Would Softimage take off! ???

And realistically I believe that SI was purchased as nothing more than a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barriers_to_entry

You may be right. But if it did take off, they would reconsider. I will reread your posts when I have the chance.

[angus_davidson]

1st While the idea maybe sound to a degree, the OP forgets the most important question... What's in it for Autodesk. And not being unduly cruel from a business point of view, the answer is nothing.

2nd. For the community to fund a project and then as suggested use Ad Consulting, would be a very unwise choice. AD use consultants to make money too. Many of the big 5 consulting companies start at 100% of the cost of the consultants is paid as profit. Which means for the community, 1/2 the number of people working on it, or 1/2 the time - for any monies paid. Let alone the consulting motivation to drag the project out to generate income.

3rd. While the community might eventually agree on a particular function, it may not be possible, due to sdk access, or if one is forced to use AD Consulting, it also may not be achievable as it may directly conflict with their other products goals and their market position and marketing plans for such products. (sorry angus).

Dont worry for all my doom I am an eternal optimist. maybe one day they will ditch the mainwin requirement in the Linux version and a mac version would become possible ;)

Having the joy of a long drive home I have a bit more time to chew through this. I think this model only works when you come from an open source beginning. Its also why a program like blender will be a real contender down the line. They have issues to work through (such as the abyssal UI / interaction) but if they are smart and get a crowd funded professional to sort it out (which they have done on a smaller scale projects) they have a chance to make a program that people want to use, rather then use because its a cheaper alternative.

Sadly Letterbox is correct that Autodesk would not be doing themselves any favors by bringing much requested features to Soft as it directly competes with their intent to move companies to Maya. Even the traditional corporate games strongholds are migrating to Maya.

I do think Sidefx / Modo are padding their lists a little like Luceric suggested, but to me it not the length of the lists that is important. Its important because a large majority of non padded features are things people actually want and have been asking for. Wheres as we don't ask for nearly as much and get less back. From a Value Added / release point of view Maya , Modo and Houdini far outstrip Softimage.

Which is what irritates me the most. Even with sucking the hind tit resource wise for so many years Softimage is still out the box the best 3D package for the generalist / small company out there. For all that it got wrong (my personal gripe is the abandon ware that illusion became) it got a lot of things right. Even with the lack of Maya type resources its remained not only usable but also world class. Luceric and old team , as well as the new team don't get enough praise for that.

Personally what I am hoping for in 2015 is we get a decent softimage installer for linux (for both deb and rpm based distro's) I dont want to spend 3 weeks trying to get it to work in the distro of my choosing. That way I can finally rid myself of the Malware that is Windows ;)

[Bellsey]

Even the traditional corporate games strongholds are migrating to Maya.

It might surprise some people, but many companies (including the more bigger and corporates) have already been using Maya for years. Many have been on Maya since it first launched.

[jamination]

I just checked, bargining is the 3rd stage of the 5 stages of loss and grief, looks like we are half way there folks.

[angus_davidson]

Even the traditional corporate games strongholds are migrating to Maya.

It might surprise some people, but many companies (including the more bigger and corporates) have already been using Maya for years. Many have been on Maya since it first launched.

Supposedly the major reason we got features like the camera sequencer was because they were requested by the bigger far eastern Gaming companies. Apparently they have enough clout to get something like that in rather then something we all need. However even they are in the process of moving to Maya.

[angus_davidson]

I just checked, bargining is the 3rd stage of the 5 stages of loss and grief, looks like we are half way there folks.

Is angry optimism a stage ? ;)

[Hirazi Blue]

As even our resident Autodesk drones (yes, plural) seem all too eager to forget that this is still a Softimage community, I think we're indeed way beyond bargaining here.

[luceric]

Supposedly the major reason we got features like the camera sequencer was because they were requested by the bigger far eastern Gaming companies. Apparently they have enough clout to get something like that in rather then something we all need.

a consulting project. (and maya has a camera sequencer too doesn't it) These far eastern companies yawn at all the ICE work they are not using.

[angus_davidson]

Supposedly the major reason we got features like the camera sequencer was because they were requested by the bigger far eastern Gaming companies. Apparently they have enough clout to get something like that in rather then something we all need.

a consulting project. (and maya has a camera sequencer too doesn't it) These far eastern companies yawn at all the ICE work they are not using.

Money = Clout ;) Always has been the case. Of course then irks me that a consulting project is then showcased as the major feature of a yearly update for subscribers.(which then makes them wonder where the money they pay on a yearly basis goes to) I know you cant win either way. Well i imagine the consultancy wasnt cheap so you didn't really loose ;) I am assuming then that its cheaper for them to move to Maya then to pay for a Viewport at the same level as Maya's.

As for the camera sequencer Maya is extensible to build those type of things.(Main selling point really) So there is no wonder that it there. The consulting thing also explains the fact that Motion blur was just not thought about properly. You delivered to their spec and obviously that company does motion blur in post prod.

We dont use ICE either. Our course isnt long enough for our students to explore it in any detail. Hopefully we get a postgrad interested in it.

[luceric]

I am not certain that the DX11 viewport is an important factor to anything. At least one japan company has its game engine running in the custom display host

[McNistor]

I am not certain that the DX11 viewport is an important factor to anything. At least one japan company has its game engine running in the custom display host

What factor is important do you recon?
What requirements do they have that Maya can meet but Softimage no longer doesn't? I say no longer because it worked well for them so far. What changed?

[luceric]

I am not certain that the DX11 viewport is an important factor to anything. At least one japan company has its game engine running in the custom display host

What factor is important do you recon?
What requirements do they have that Maya can meet but Softimage no longer doesn't? I say no longer because it worked well for them so far. What changed?

I think studios using Softimage have always been running the tides and having trouble finding talents and hiring people. In the last decade the game studios have been looking up to film pipelines, they've been hiring Film TDs and supervisors coming from film. Maya people. People have always had to justify to their supervisors why they're using Softimage when partners, and films, are using Maya. As if that wasn't pressure enough, there is a bunch of things that they want in Softimage, and can't develop with its limited SDK, necessitating expensive consulting contracts. This bubble was going to burst sooner or later. Avid could have pumped a lot of resources in XSI to preserve these accounts on XSI, but Autodesk has nothing to lose with them moving to Maya, it simplifies everything.

Some people could argue that Softimage is there just because it's always been there, not because it does something fantastic anymore for the game pipeline, where everything is running in the game engine and a lot of the tech in the DCC (any dcc, including Maya) is legacy stuff they are not using, or oriented towards VFX.

One team developed a level editor in Softimage, with an interface that is made so that the user doesn't have to know anything about Softimage, or even 3D, with custom manipulators that are a bit like 3DSMax. To me this says that that not only it hard to find people trained in softimage, but that it has become irrelevant in some case, because an old style DCC like softimage isn't doing a whole lot of what they need to push these games out with hordes of contractors and partners.

[iamVFX]

I was a developer on Softimage for 14 years, a team leader for a decade, and the development manager for the whole product as well for many years as well.

As if that wasn't pressure enough, there is a bunch of things that they want in Softimage, and can't develop with its limited SDK, necessitating expensive consulting contracts. This bubble was going to burst sooner or later. Avid could have pumped a lot of resources in XSI to preserve these accounts on XSI, but Autodesk has nothing to lose with them moving to Maya, it simplifies everything.

How's that feel to work for more than 14 years on technology which will die off?

[angus_davidson]

I was a developer on Softimage for 14 years, a team leader for a decade, and the development manager for the whole product as well for many years as well.

As if that wasn't pressure enough, there is a bunch of things that they want in Softimage, and can't develop with its limited SDK, necessitating expensive consulting contracts. This bubble was going to burst sooner or later. Avid could have pumped a lot of resources in XSI to preserve these accounts on XSI, but Autodesk has nothing to lose with them moving to Maya, it simplifies everything.

How's that feel to work for more than 14 years on technology which will die off?

I have only been up to 10 but its very difficult to see something that you poured a large part of decade of my life lost because of middle and upper management incompetence and unwillingness to listen to the people who actually knew what they are doing. Partly why I get so pissed off is the steps in that process have virtually been done step for step in the management of Softimage. The difference is as Luceric points out Autodesk has nothing to loose if Softimage falls by the wayside.

Its also why its unlikely for there to ever be some form of open source lifeline for Softimage. If they do shutter it , they want it to stay that way. Its just very poor business sense to do otherwise.

[Pooby]

Luceric. What is your motive for coming in here talking to Softimage users?
To show us the light that is Maya?

[luceric]

Luceric. What is your motive for coming in here talking to Softimage users?
To show us the light that is Maya?

I care very much about Softimage users, and what is being talked about. I've gotten to know many people through the years, and the softimage community is important to me. I'm going through a transition to maya, with a dozen of my colleagues, as some users have been through. We didn't "quit" softimage. Some people are not going to continue with Autodesk, and that's fine, but for those that will, there are a couple of sympathetic softimage UI people leading up the Maya UI team. My interest is making life better for creative people, wherever they may be.