XSI for arch viz?

[Rork]

Hi all,

Some inspiration for archviz work.

http://vimeo.com/7809605

Done in max/vray, but softimage/vray is (hopefully) around the corner for this year ;)

Don't forget to check out the breakdown and compositing video's on the same page.

rob

[wannabeArtist]

Hi all,

Some inspiration for archviz work.

http://vimeo.com/7809605

rob

Inspiration? Dang, that's so amazing it almost makes me stop trying
Just joking. Seriously though, amazing piece of work.

I got to reveal my ignorance once again and ask why vray is so popular in the arch viz business? How does it compare (and out do, apparently) mental ray?

Maximus and Deracus, thanks for your input. It would be great if you guys could also share your thoughts on the other thread.

[wannabeArtist]

Here's another basic question - about units:

Softimage has it's custom units - or I guess most of the time we use the 10cm for one unit(?).

How is that different for example 3ds Max's unit system? I know you can set Max to use meters or US units and so forth, but surely there must be something more to it, or is there?
And what happens if you import a piece of geometry made with Softimage to Max using Crosswalk? If you have modeled it using the 1 unit = 10 cm rule, can you just scale it appropriately in Max to match your original scale?

[Rez007]

Here's another basic question - about units:

Softimage has it's custom units - or I guess most of the time we use the 10cm for one unit(?).

How is that different for example 3ds Max's unit system? I know you can set Max to use meters or US units and so forth, but surely there must be something more to it, or is there?
And what happens if you import a piece of geometry made with Softimage to Max using Crosswalk? If you have modeled it using the 1 unit = 10 cm rule, can you just scale it appropriately in Max to match your original scale?

You make a valid point in how Softimage will work in correlation to other programs. I am going to share with you my solution to this issue. While others might not agree, this works for me. I believe Softimage does have its internal units set to 1 unit = 10cm. Now, I believe that this was more or less done way back when people were using XSI's older physics system to do simulations. Now with ICE in the mix, I don’t know if that internal unit is even looked at anymore while doing simulations with ICE (I could be wrong; I dont really work with ICE). So, with that said, this is what I do for my Arch Viz scenarios, because I do in fact transfer a lot of my work to Max.
A while back using 3DS Max 9, I made a cube with the dimensions 1ft x 1ft x 1ft -same as - 12inch x 12inch x 12inch. Since there are 12 inches in 1 foot, and architectural measurements in the US are done with feet and inches, I figured it is best to stay with the unit system that my country uses rather than using the SI (metric) system. Next, I exported the 3DS Max cube via Crosswalk, and then imported it into Softimage. My intentions now, were to recreate a Softimage cube that matches the proportions of my imported 3DS Max cube. This way I could find the ratio and make a math solution for future measurements. This is when I found out something great. When I created a cube in Softimage (XSI back when I did this), I had to create a cube that was 12 units large in order to match the imported 3DS Max cube perfectly. So, with that said I found out that a 12inch x 12inch x 12inch (1ft x 1ft x 1ft) 3DS Max cube is equal to a 12 unit x 12 unit x 12unit cube created in Softimage. That leaves a 12/12 ratio or a 1 to 1 ratio.

So: 1 unit in Softimage = 1 inch in 3DS Max

This is the ratio that I use in my Arch Viz projects and it has worked great so far. Everything lines up nicely in Softimage with the grid, and transferring to 3DS Max is a breeze. Some might disagree with my solution, but it works for me, and if Autodesk makes 3DS Max, which is the king of the Arch Viz industry, the best bet would be to match Softimage’s units to 3DS Max’s unit system right from the get go rather than trying to “eyeball” the scaling when you transfer your model into Max.

[wannabeArtist]

Thanks for sharing that!

I actually went ahead and tried what you said and it works!
Yesterday I downloaded a trial of Max to test how it works the other way around (from XSI to Max), but I'm having some trouble with crosswalk and the Max importer freezes half way. Anyways, the other way around it works just as you described.

Kind of funny though why our assumed 10 cm units equal 1 inch and not 10 cm (or 3,937 inches) in Max, but that's in fact irrelevant.

[Rez007]

Thanks for sharing that!

I actually went ahead and tried what you said and it works!
Yesterday I downloaded a trial of Max to test how it works the other way around (from XSI to Max), but I'm having some trouble with crosswalk and the Max importer freezes half way. Anyways, the other way around it works just as you described.

Kind of funny though why our assumed 10 cm units equal 1 inch and not 10 cm (or 3,937 inches) in Max, but that's in fact irrelevant.

Hey… I am glad it worked for you. As for the issue with bringing it back into Max, I thought they might have fixed that by now… what I found in the past is that it had to do something with the exported texture data. Either click on/off one of the buttons on the export data panel in Crosswalk Settings or go into the material manager and find out with image/material is doing it. It can be fussy, but it will eventually open in Max.

As for the second part of your reply, (I might be wrong here, this is just an assumption) the reason I believe that the measurements don’t work out as you mention, is because that both programs might use a different internal base scale. At the time Autodesk made AutoCAD and Max, not Softimage (XSI), that was by Avid. So, either company can set their internal scale to what ever they want because it is virtual. So, at this point I would tend to rely more on Autodesk’s world scale units than XSI's, since AutoCAD and Max are actually used to build real world structures, where as XSI at the time was more for film. Everyone says that Softimage units can be whatever you want them to be, even though Softimage as an internal scale set to 1 unit = 10cm, I really wouldn’t trust that system. Since the theory I mentioned in the earlier post actually works at a 1/1 ratio, which is the best ratio you can get, it would be awesome if Autodesk would just throw away the old simulation system and all documentation in Softimage that says/uses 1 unit = 10 cm, and assuming that nothing actually uses that internal unit scale anymore, and be like “hey, 1 unit in Softimage = 1inch.” I think would make everything a lot easier, in terms of using the grid; actual scale reference to real world data (since most real world objects give their dimension in inches); actual real world lights (IES), and Mental Ray shaders (.mia), which are based off of real world phenomena…throw in an option in Softimage to have a units display, and call it a day. Yes, it sounds way easier than it probably actually is. But these are all the reasons I use 1 unit = 1 inch…

Best of luck.

[scottsch]

Use 3dsmax for archviz, it is the industry standard.

-IES lights
-Photographic camera exposure integration (XSI has it but you need to set it up in the camera)
-DXF-DWG(Autocad)/Revit file *linking*
-The ability to create walls/etc with a linked file's vector art via a modifier menu "extrude"
-Better file export, more reliable import
-Mature vray integration
-Real world measurement system with conversion options on import
-Real world measurement system for modeling
-Mental ray as an option if you don't have vray, and mental ray is fully integrated
-3dsmax archviz userbase is huge (cgarchitect.com)
-Annual maintenance is cheaper
-All Evermotion 3d files are already in 3dsmax format, and textured.
-Big architectural companies are Autocad + revit and 3dsmax for presentations.
-Better, faster toon plugin. MUCH faster.

I use XSI for 3D and love it, but if you are looking for a job you need to use the industry standard tools. There was a time when XSI was $495 and offered basically the same toolset, minus vray. Now they are the same price, so the choice is really only about features, not cost.

[scottsch]

Next there is the argument with the shaders? What shaders do you mean? XSI does incorporate the same MentalRay Renderer as does Max. Even VRay is in development. With some simple tricks it was even possible to put the production and portallight shaders to XSI 6.5. So this can´t really be a serious reason to switch apps, if there was just some work spend in a better integration of the new MR-Features, that are already there but only missing a GUI. Same thing with the lights. Thanks to the wom_archlight, there is a working proof, that XSI is capable of providing physically accurate and working IES-Lighting.

Shaders in 3dsmax have many presets that assist people in archviz production (promaterials and archmat shader presets). They also come with many map files that already have the shading networks built. I am not talking about "rusty metal" either, but real world pavers, bricks, boards, flooring, etc that can be easily setup to be mapped to their 'real world' size, so you are not guessing about the mapping/tiling options. It would take you a few weeks to recreate all of them for use in XSI. Not many people have the kind of time required to turn XSI into 3dsmax.

IES is completely integrated into 3dsmax mental ray and vray. There is no comparison between a 3rd party plugin and what 3dsmax offers for IES, out of the box. This is why some of us have been begging for IES for so long. And I mean literally begging Softimage for it. XSI lighting is pitiful when compared to 3dsmax. If it wasn't for wom, we would have nothing except extremely sketchy IES integration from.... ctrl_studio! There has never been a serious effort to have IES lights or photometric lights + camera integration in XSI by the XSI dev team. In 3dsmax (and vray) it is one of the main feature sets and is very mature at this point in time. I am not criticising the dev team, they are brilliant, but IES is not one of their side-hobbies, let's put it that way.

And the reason why IES is important for archviz is because you are building scenes around very real world specs like lighting output, and architects need to know, not just want to know, how it is going to look to have certain fixtures in the space and what sort of light shapes the fixtures will throw. Visualization is not just about copying something that has already been shot but it's a design-assist tool to help you see things the way they will be before you commit to them in the physical world.

[wannabeArtist]

scottsch,

Thanks for the detailed reasoning!

However, comparing Max and Softimage is not really why I started this thread in the first place, but rather I wanted to know if anyone is using it for archviz.

I think everybody agrees that Max is the industry standard for that kind of work, but like discussed in the beginning of this thread, having the best tool for every purpose is not an option for many of us - especially if arcwiz is not ones main work.

And I don't know when XSI sold for $495, but I'm guessing it's been a while. When I jumped in and started with XSI 6 Foundation, it alone must have been more than that and it was Foundation, just for personal use. Also the current prices for AD products here in Finland (and I guess in most of Europe) are way higher than in the US.