Rant: Wish you were here...

[Daniel Brassard]

It's not a respected industry "neutral" ground like cgtalk, or the official XSI mailing list. Personally I believe it would be best for the community and the engagement if xsibase.com finally died and people regrouped on cgtalk and/or The Area.

Well I belong to all of them and get different opinion or support/help from each one but, from experience, xsibase and si-community has been the more productive, helpfull and active of them all on the Softimage front.

The Area site need some love, the frequency of post is less than SI-Community or XSIBase and the response is even less. many SI user refuse to frequent the Area for some reasons or other. As for the blog post, well you make your own jugement (a post every six month does not make it a blog IMHO, Thank SB for XSI Support blog). So the Area is not a good choice to gather at this point in time for me. Also, to login to get a free ice compound is a pain (yeah RRAY).

XSIBase is the most mature site but it is also the least functionnal of them all. To post a picture, compound or plugin require jumping some hoops. It is also plague by hacher attacks and many of the links to scripts, image or plugins are dead. I agree with Luc-Eric on this one, XSIBase need a serious revamp or its going to die. Too bad, it has a lot of activities and good information on the site. The people are very helpfull and a good representation of new and more experience users.

CG Talk is a mature and well maintain website. It has a lot of activities in other areas of the 2D and 3D industry. CG Talk/CG Society have competitions, weekly workshop and more. Unfortunately, on the Softimage specific forum, it's almost dead air (20 threads). Granted, if we were to move all to CGTalk, the activities would increased significantly.

XSI List, the grandady, I like it but refrain to post, it's more an attitude of listening and learning from the master of the industry. Can be intimidating for newcomers! Not recommended for an all out gathering, nuff said.

SI-Community started slowly but is picking momemtum. It may be a small site but it is modern, well maintain and active. It is easy to post compounds and plugins. It may be the yougster in the group, and it shows in some of the post, but given enought time, it will mature into a CGTalk or XSIBase. There is a good representation of users, althout I would like a little bit more participation from the pro!

What I am looking for is an active Softimage forum that provide a good amount of functionality to share information. The site must be easy to navigate and to search.

In the end, my preference are in this order SI Community, XSIBase (modernized if possible) or CGTalk (if the community become more active there).

My appologies for my long rant!

[druitre]

Luc-Eric! Just my opinion, but what you say there is so wildly besides my experience that I feel the need to reply.

XSIbase is in essence an okay place, but the forumsoftware they use doesn't work for me (Messy searchsystem, oh wait, s.ystem ). Also, there has been at times a GFFIOY attitude (Go F'in Figure It Out Yourself) which intimidates open discussion of 'simpler' issues. What's simple to one person may be a lifesaver to another.
CGTalk I never go there, not focused, like a primary schoolyard, waste of time.
The Area - I've tried. Very unattractive place. Manages to hang my browser, to make it even less attractive.
Mailing list - interesting topics and information but why anyone would use a mailing list when we've got forums is totally beyond me. Matter of personal taste, no doubt.
Original Softimage user forums - brilliant place, what was it again happened to that one?

All of which leaves SIcommunity. I really don't care at all who manages or operates a forum, wether it's a crazed individual or the managing director of AD himself. All I care about is that it offers reliable information in a reliable way, has an open attitude, invites discussion, is fast and easily searchable. Offers usercreated content. IMO SIcommunity fits the bill on all accounts, wereas the alternatives don't. A larger, better rounded-out userbase would improve things, yes. Where do you buy one of those?

I think a merge of XSIbase and SIcommunity would be a positive thing, but I'd definitely prefer the result to be more like SIcommunity than XSIbase.

Anyway, just the way I see it.

Jasper

[Fer]

The thread is shifting into another subject... an interesting one: a new centralized Softimage hub regrouping Si-Community and XSI-base as forums, with compounds and scripts archives, and blog to draw attention. It's will be amazing and i think it something that can boost Soft notoriety. I'm sure people will be willing to help, me first.

[Bellsey]

I agree with other about xsibase, for a time it was the place to go but it could do with an overhaul, which is easier said then done. To me it kinda feels stuck at XSI 5.11
CGSociety/CGtalk is a funny place and kinda doesn't feel professional, though you do get many pros on there. Seems more a place for students and fanboys. I nosy around on there, but don't tend to post.
SI-Community and the mailing are my communities of choice for Softimage.

As for the AREA, well it's always a topic of debate. The main problem has been that it felt 'broken' for so long and from what I've been told, getting anything done for it was insanely differcult due to technical & logistical issues, and certain personalities. Thankfully much of that has now been addressed but its mostly back room stuff and no obvious to people. However with those things sorted, the Blogs section is alot better now and much easier to navigate and even better for posting. You wouldn't believe how hard it used to be. So things are starting to change and be improved, the 'to do' list is pretty long though.

[luceric]

I think the reason why some are more at ease to post here is you know no one from Autodesk will see it. On cgtalk, you could have been seen my chinny, mark, the management staff and developers from autodesk, top clients, etc.

on cgtalk, in the general threads there are plenty of amateurs posting, and sometime flaming (although not necessarily by non-pros if you know some of the people behind the names). that goes along with popularity. However, that's where the eyes of the industry are, whether it's amateurs - of course - but also artists at the big studios or the top managers at Autodesk. cgtalk and creative crash (terrible name... what were they thinking?) these are the site that endured and survived. Few people are posting on the softimage cgtalk forum because of the mailing list, this forum and xsibase, no other reason intrinsic to cgtalk. But you can't dispute the quality of the people participating to it. the forum leaders are pros, including ralf from animal logic - a key person at one of the top Softimage accounts.

[EricTRocks]

haha, I'll tell him you called him ralf. Raf is one of the most well versed folks I know using Softimage. Luckily I get to pick his brain at work but I don't think you can get any better of a Softimage forum moderator than him who doesn't put up with any crap and who can also help you solve your issues quite rapidly as well. He pays attention to the boards so you won't go days without a reply most the time. Especially about the more technical aspects.

I totally agree with Luc-Eric. I do like that we have our own little corner of the web just for us, but it is a bit of a detriment to helping get more attention for Softimage.

[Mathaeus]

I think the reason why some are more at ease to post here is you know no one from Autodesk will see it. On cgtalk, you could have been seen my chinny, mark, the management staff and developers from autodesk, top clients, etc.

great, but it's not only about *who* is there. Exactly for this site, it's about highly stylized, predictable and boring visual content. Some artwork appeared on covers of printed magazines - but it was refused from them, even from lowest level of presentation. Everything else is there to help their vision of visual content, *not* to advertise particular 3d application, especially not Softimage. Of course, high-level technicians are always enough self centered to eat this, but this is another story....

After all, it's not Softimage site.

Again it's not about *who*, it's about *what*. For example, before I bought Modo, I've searched for radiosity stills, created by ordinary people. How good they are, what's ratio between technical and artistic comments. Hopefully, much more of artistic, which meant a damn good renderer. Some too much technical comment, this would be a negative reference. Only 'external' forum for Modo... I wouldn't buy it, I'd just take this company as not enough serious.

[luceric]

Ah, the “Softimage Community Unification Theory” rears its ugly head again. Apart from the fact that the si-community most definitively isn’t “literally just someone's personal forum, that a bunch of people joined in anger over the softimage.com forum change”

The way I remember it, this forum was created by an individual because the softimage.com forum was poorly maintained going down. And the softimage.com forum itself had came up because people wanted a unified central forum for the community, that's in part why we had made it. it was up for less than 2 years I think?

and the sily idea that a community only can be acceptable, if and when it represent the whole of the user base, the notion that the whole user base should eventually move to the CGSociety and/or the Area is laughable IMHO

Having a healthy community representative of the professionals using the software is not laughable. It's kind of weird if it isn't the case, imho. About cgtalk, the people at ilm, Weta and digital domain don't have a problem participating their Maya message boards there. (The Area forum is also pretty active) and a vast number of pepple from Autodesk don't mind engaging users there. I don't think there is a problem that is really being fixed by si-community, it's capturing some people's attention - and making people duplicate questions on multiple forums to hope to hit the right set.

Btw, 14% of the posts here are from Hirazi. More than 1 out of 6, and if you consider that a lot of posts are in response to those, it wouldn't surprise me if that's more than 1/3 of the posts. Basically, this forum is you, it's totally your turf and you define the narrative. The previous Softimage team by wasn't at ease with that and have not participated (I've never seen Chinny or any one of my dev or the QA here, maybe I missed a post? I know a couple of people who categorically refuse to even read) According to this thread, the new one may not be comming. So.. what's a proposed solution?

[Mathaeus]

It's me again Just personally, I'm regular visitor of Area, regular reader of all Bellsey's posts , including the one with nice girls from Russia I also have a really nice experience with my work published there. I even got T-shirt with 'AREA', as well as hat with Softimage logo
Why I prefer this place, actually I don't know why, I just prefer it. That is, maybe it's impossible to push people on this or that place - let a thousand flowers bloom....

[Tekano]

on cgtalk, in the general threads there are plenty of amateurs posting, and sometime flaming (although not necessarily by non-pros if you know some of the people behind the names). that goes along with popularity. However, that's where the eyes of the industry are, whether it's amateurs - of course - but also artists at the big studios or the top managers at Autodesk. cgtalk and creative crash (terrible name... what were they thinking?) these are the site that endured and survived. Few people are posting on the softimage cgtalk forum because of the mailing list, this forum and xsibase, no other reason intrinsic to cgtalk. But you can't dispute the quality of the people participating to it. the forum leaders are pros, including ralf from animal logic - a key person at one of the top Softimage accounts.

Ok, Firstly, there is no dispute - Raf is a great guy, professional and helpful. he does good work as admin there and has always been helpful on the mailing list. My beef was not with him.

what I said earlier was more towards an overall attitude on cgtalk forum displayed by some, but not all of the moderators. I visit there infrequently & used to be a paid up member, but when they started inventing rules about what can and cannot be said (on a forum!) getting all 'holier than thou' and 'we know best' kind of attitude it seems like there was an awful lot of unnecessary stifling of free speech and opinions going on for, what seemed to me, only for the sake of Advertising revenue. eg a recent thread http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread. ... &t=1058480 (not picking on this moderator just the first thread I encountered) highlights the kind of issue I see there all the time. The OP has nothing but good intentions but the moderator clearly knows best...! the hoops he has to jump through in order to get his points eventually discussed are much more taxing than trying to attach an image in an XSIbase thread

Some more corporate visitors might see the site as 'pleasant and informative' other, more creative folk may see it as 'overtly censored or suppressed'. Its no suprise to me that its Autodesks favourite haunt and also that some folk are nervous to discuss certain issues for as soon as they do they are systemically disciplined or silenced

[druitre]

Basically, this forum is you, it's totally your turf and you define the narrative. The previous Softimage team by wasn't at ease with that and have not participated (I've never seen Chinny or any one of my dev or the QA here, maybe I missed a post? I know a couple of people who categorically refuse to even read) According to this thread, the new one may not be comming. So.. what's a proposed solution?

If what you say is true, then that is a serious issue. As said before, I am not interested in who owns or moderates a forum, I'm interested in the content and the ease of access. Can I get answers/knowledge/addons? Ideally, there would be only one forum for Softimage, used by all users, pros, amateurs, talents, nontalents, whatever you got. A true centralized hub of all stuff relating to SI.

Normally, I'd say that kind of forum is the responsibility of the software's company. Can anyone explain how it has come to be that SI doesn't have that forum from way back? Is XSIbase a response by dissatisfied users to the lack of an official forum from then owner Avid?

On another note: Hirazi may be omnipresent here as he's the most active moderator, but he certainly doesn't define my narrative. IMO a bit strange to see a forum as one person's turf, I post whatever I like about whatever interests me. But as I said, not a good situation at all if other people see it that way and for that reason refuse to post.

[Mathaeus]

... so what is proposal....

Make AREA the readable site, that's all possible to do. That is, just the same almost-full-window layout as here, availability to jump directly into specific forum, allow people to participate as admins...
From my personal experience AREA is very well organized forum (quick answer and like), also they know well what is Softimage, ICE an so - at least, they know much better than people from other similar forums. Difference between ICE compound and plugin, well that's a bit too much to expect.

CG Talk again, I think it's not so shiny for them these days. One picture in '3d choice' takes about 50k visits (after very long time). Nothing more than in good old times. For comparison, 'zbc most popular' on zBrush central, means more than 500k. CG talk is not only one of this kind, for a long time. As 3d application forum, it's ignored by a few of huge communities (Blender and Zbrush).

Personally, only 3d artwork forum that I'm visiting regularly, it's zBrush central. As usually, majority of stuff is a crap, but here and there, it's outstanding. There is also a "modern" structure of personal threads, they are able to deal with mature content, and most important: they are able to show just a creative, simple work. Not (only) so typical for 3d, "prison art" - "great level of detail" and such idiotic perception.

But, zBrush central has nothing with standard 3d app. And that's yet another reason for more of specialized forums. "One for all" concept, that's a history, imho.

Why someone don't want to visit this place, why this is sooo important... I don't know. It's about forum to make a positive atmosphere for creativity of any kind, pictures, models, plugins, compounds, whatever. I think there is a quite good count of contributions, here.

And yes, mr.Blue yes he is a boring sometimes - well just as any other moderator . Nothing bad, at all.

[Kerro Perro]

I'n curious: what is "prison art"? If it depicts ladies' prisons i'm all for it ;)

I just wanted add a thought about "letting xsibase die" - i hope it and others like it would at least continue as archives. They serve well to answer all the noob questions that have been asked before since 2002! If they would go you see a lot more silly "i don't know how to animate a camera" threads (and such). Btw i speak as someone who has googled hundreds of SI questions and only rarely have to make posting to get it answered. As for all in one place: that's what's google's for too IMO.

I do wish all those "pro's" would post here instead of the mailing list simply because i find it a clumsy format. But they are free to use whatever hangout they wish, would be a dark world if they weren't.

As for the AD folks coming here i think we already get a few don't we?

Just a very stupid thought perhaps but might there also be a language barrier fot the singapore team? I'm pretty sure that's why the aforementioned Japanese aren't posting here ;)

[Tekano]

Difference between ICE compound and plugin, well that's a bit too much to expect.

Ah Mathaeus you hippy I agree with almost everything you said apart from Im not a sculpting fan, but the above what you said is wrong. Call me narrow minded, but it is the bare minimum I would expect from any so called Softimage forum.

[Mathaeus]

Difference between ICE compound and plugin, well that's a bit too much to expect.

Ah Mathaeus you hippy I agree with almost everything you said apart from Im not a sculpting fan, but the above what you said is wrong. Call me narrow minded, but it is the bare minimum I would expect from any so called Softimage forum.

of course, just wanted say something positive...

anyway here's about our James Bond in Russia

[gfxman]

Ah, the “Softimage Community Unification Theory” rears its ugly head again. Apart from the fact that the si-community most definitively isn’t “literally just someone's personal forum, that a bunch of people joined in anger over the softimage.com forum change”

The way I remember it, this forum was created by an individual because the softimage.com forum was poorly maintained going down. And the softimage.com forum itself had came up because people wanted a unified central forum for the community, that's in part why we had made it. it was up for less than 2 years I think?

and the sily idea that a community only can be acceptable, if and when it represent the whole of the user base, the notion that the whole user base should eventually move to the CGSociety and/or the Area is laughable IMHO

Having a healthy community representative of the professionals using the software is not laughable. It's kind of weird if it isn't the case, imho. About cgtalk, the people at ilm, Weta and digital domain don't have a problem participating their Maya message boards there. (The Area forum is also pretty active) and a vast number of pepple from Autodesk don't mind engaging users there. I don't think there is a problem that is really being fixed by si-community, it's capturing some people's attention - and making people duplicate questions on multiple forums to hope to hit the right set.

Btw, 14% of the posts here are from Hirazi. More than 1 out of 6, and if you consider that a lot of posts are in response to those, it wouldn't surprise me if that's more than 1/3 of the posts. Basically, this forum is you, it's totally your turf and you define the narrative. The previous Softimage team by wasn't at ease with that and have not participated (I've never seen Chinny or any one of my dev or the QA here, maybe I missed a post? I know a couple of people who categorically refuse to even read) According to this thread, the new one may not be comming. So.. what's a proposed solution?

This is the only softimage forum that's working. it is what xsibase was 5 years ago. It is what the softimage official forum, was going to be, and never become, cause of autodesk acquisition.
We're waiting for them to re-give us the centralized uploading compound system that would have revoluzionaed the community, and simplify our life.

But, since nobody from Ad cares about softimage, neither is willing to listen to the community, this forum is all the user got.
I can't rellay understand where you want to go, with your post.

Xsibase should be closed, and all that community, redirected here, as, for the most part, topics a cloned and repeated here and there, but the most part of "action" in the ice side, it's here.

hirazi posts a lot, he does a very good job, and the old softimage team,that was not posting here, it's dead now, so who gives a f++k about what they did?

This is the softimage community today,give some respect. And bytheway aren't you a maya guy now? ;)