Softimage 2012 announced

[eternal art]

I'm not sure but as i know (Unified Sampling) is another name for (Restrizer) .
but don't take my word .

[gustavoeb]

I guess people that work at SI know they can't expect much from MR, that is why we porbably have seen lots of updates in the SDK. So other companys can deliver what mental images just can't, despite the gazilions of dollars they might be getting with every maya, max, si license.

[Maximus]

check here if you want some info about unified sampling:

http://forum.mentalimages.com/showthread.php?t=7780

i'm so deeply frustrated on how Mental Ray is handled..i need to find something else really quick..this is really became absurd.

[SreckoM]

@Max

I saw that you mostly doing interior or exterior renderings? Right?
Why do not you try Vray?

[Maximus]

@SreckoM because Vray is failing bad, its been 5 years in development? still no news, i was in beta and they were pretty slow to develop and fix stuff (obviously because of the small userbase, not blaming CGroup).
Dunno how further they went, but when i was in beta everything was a crash right after another, displacement -> crash, environment image -> crash, render region -> crash and so on.

Its not ready at all, otherwise we would hear more about it, and i'm guessing they are having some issue with softimage sdk? no idea.

I like mental ray, i like the quality and i've spent lots of time on it, what i dont like is the complete missing of features since a lot of time wich are game changers, especially importons + fg + ibl + progressive mode + iRay.

Even at mental images forum you can read how people got shocked on how MR is implemented by Autodesk in their 3d packages.
I think this needs some serious work. But i'm telling it since 2 years and we got nothing.
Sadly i'm softimage user wich means suck it up when it comes to render stuff.

[origin]

vray beta is going good...one big flaw it's exporting every time you render, and there will be no scene/texture caching in v1.0. Still few things not implemented mainly ICE area.
The MR features you listed, how long they are in development? ages and still unfinished? importons sucks, iray sucks, fg sucks, brute force gi sucks, progressive mode sucks, iray sucks even more, antialiasing sucks, area lights sucks, motion blur sucks!!!, depth of field sucks. this is one big dead renderer, stone age thing included in modern package (softimage, not max or maya)

[Rez007]

I thought for sure an overhaul to Mental Ray would have been the main feature in 2012, because that is the only thing that people have been complaing about forever...I guess I was wrong. In hindsight, it only took 6 years to get IES lights (which the lighting system still doesn't work properly), still no unit-of-measure option, they opened up the modeling aspect - which seems to mean no out-of-box shell/thickness or proper extrude along normals...instead it seems like they want the community to make those. It would have been nice if they at least added those into the the release.

I am definitely not ranting, eventhough it seems like it, I do like the 2012 features, but some things are consistantly overlooked. I don't like when basic things are left to the general users to make. It leads to many different versions, and instability issues because poeple just want to be the first to release.

[Nizar]

Agree with Reez and Max, but I think they would push SI in a "Houdini style" direction, in this way SI don't make problems with MAx and Maya fields.
So, no one users feature request, IMO, will be done by Autodesk

[ShaderOp]

Agree with Reez and Max, but I think they would push SI in a "Houdini style" direction, in this way SI don't make problems with MAx and Maya fields.
So, no one users feature request, IMO, will be done by Autodesk

And another conspiracy theory is born

[Nizar]

Yes, I cannot live without

IMO is a sensate commercial choice: Before acquisition SI was aimed to dethrone Maya, but now AD don't have any interest in this. The better solution is cannibalize Houdini userbase (AD cannot buy Houdini).

[ShaderOp]

Yes, I cannot live without

IMO is a sensate commercial choice: Before acquisition SI was aimed to dethrone Maya, but now AD don't have any interest in this. The better solution is cannibalize Houdini userbase (AD cannot buy Houdini).

Okay, I'll bite. Let's break this down a bit:

I don't know much about 3DS Max, but I think that most of the most exciting and innovative features that came to it started as third-party plug-ins that were later bought and marketed as new native features, and third-party plug-ins continue to be the lifeblood of Max. For example: V-Ray. 'Nuff said.

I do have the dubious pleasure of knowing something about Maya due to it being the software used at iAnimate, the online animation school I'm currently attending. And the first thing I do when I open a new scene in Maya is customize the shelf with scripts for each character I'm going to use in the scene. That's not me flexing my geek muscles; that's how it's supposed to be. In fact, I'm sure more experienced Maya users will confirm that the whole package is next to unusable without scripting.

So both Max and Maya rely on their end users to fill in the gaps and make them usable, and both products continue to thrive, user grumbling aside.

Yet when Autodesk spends a few releases to give us the uber tool authoring platform in the form of ICE, which is basically a TD's wet dream and probably the easiest, most user-friendly way for us to fill in the gaps ourselves, we view that as yet another sign of the looming death and marginalization of Softimage.

Let's just say that I'm finding that bit of logic hard to follow.

I understand how Autodesk's over marketing of SI's integration with Max and Maya might be a cause for concern for some people, but think back to the days of XSI Foundation and how Lightwave users hailed it as the ultimate animation plug-in for Lightwave. That tag line caught on, and it got some Lightwave users to try Softimage, and now many of them are devoted followers. If ICE is the first sniff that will get Maya and Max users hooked on SI's crack, then I'm all for it. Many of them will come around and become full-on addicts. We as a community would be better off by taking the doom-saying down a notch and showing those future community members how awesome SI can be.

As to Mental Ray: It's a pig. And all the features they continue to pile on top of it is just more lipstick on one fugly pig. I'm sorry, I know some people actually like Mental Ray, but I don't, and I'm glad that the Softimage team isn't wasting time integrating new features that will most probably get abandoned two steps down the road (importons, anyone?)

[Nizar]

do you mean AD don't have a plan about their products (only integration)?
IMHO AD push the original Avid ICE plan, because this a real different point from the other two major application (Maya and MAx, and permit to contrast the most innovative software out there, houdini), then after ICE complementation they will start a nonsense release with usefulness addition (new icons, a dark GUI theme ecc.)

[ActionArt]

Just a comment on AD marketing SI as a companion to Maya etc. I think it's brilliant. I know a lot of SI users that have taken offense to it but think it through! AD might be a lot of things but they're NOT stupid when it comes to marketing (how else could the sell something like Autocad).

SI badly needs to get it's foot back in the door of many shops. How better than to package it with the software these shops are already buying? If they have it, they may try it, and it will gain popularity. But if you think most shops are just going to run out and buy it and hope for the best along with training staff you're dreaming.

Having SI as a companion/plugin whatever you want to call it gives shops a chance to make use of it right away with little effort, and slowly ease there way into it. Just waiving the flag and saying SI is the best, buy it now won't work (didn't work for Avid) and AD nows this. But they also know that if they sneak it in, people will come to like it and it's popularity will grow.

I say don't take offense to this excellent marketing strategy, be glad SI will be in a LOT of shops it was never in before! Most shops need an immediate concrete reason to introduce something to the pipeline and if that's ICE particles or whatever, then great!

[Maximus]

I like what AD is doing with Softimage, i also like the features and the work SI developers are doing, but somehow i cant really get whats the Softimage direction and mostly...why?

Many discussions were made about this subject and the "anti-houdini" one seems a bit embarassing to me at least in a short run.
The reason is, we all know that people dont switch from maya to softimage for many reasons, studios already have maya pipeline and switch a software must give you a reason to do it and i dont see any in jumping from maya to softimage, especially since studios who use maya have realflow, houdini, renderman, vray, arnold and whatever they need to complete their pipeline.

The big studios wont swap Houdini with softimage at least now, cant say in next years but Houdini is too far ahead in terms of development in its field wich is unbeatable to me.

Now if you bring back the question, then whats the Softimage spot?
Well in my opinion its more oriented for tv/commercial use, small studios, freelancers, makes more sense, and its a powerfull tool for this kind of works.
That said my only concern is..we getting ICE-centric updates since v7, and almost thats it..
For small studios/freelancers, this isnt really good in some way, and for the above mentioned reason for big studios either, so..i'm kinda lost here..

I've read on softimage list a thread involving the reason mostly why big studios use Maya over Soft and well its an interesting read,
Serguei Kalentchouk from digital domain and Raffaele Fragapane from Animal Logic give some point of view.
http://groups.google.com/group/xsi_list ... 6e684e9581
I'm not that tech and expert but i really cant see any big studio swapping to Softimage for anything..
Particles, vfx, procedural modeling, fluids, simulations, shatter stuff? this is mostly already covered into top notch applications.. all functionin, all integrated and all running like now, not in 4 years (realflow,houdini, fumefx and the list goes on).

Unless its a long (really long) run in wich AD believe to make a real alternative to the world standard, i dont think its gonna happen soon, and the problem is leaving other fields of Softimage untouched or not updated will be bad for small studios/freelancers too, to a point they will be forced to switch apply, its a lose-lose situation in my opinion.

In the end what matters a lot to me is lighting/texturing/rendering/modeling field and i can really feel the lack of updates in those sections, ok i know everyone use the tools for different tasks, but in my opinion SI should really get a giant update into those fields.

Modeling with ICE is gonna be good, but also think about it, how many tools you are gonna build not being TD or ICE expert?
Zero. Then you need to rely and wait for community to release them? Well i would prefer to have something ready now, not depends on other people. And you know that ICE modeling is kinda useless and even counter productive to do normal modeling stuff.

@Origin, i agree with you about mental ray, to a certain point, i still like the quality, maybe because i invested too much time in it (maybe not worth? time wasted? dunno) but i think its a good product bad implemented and poorly documented. thats it
Of course i would love to see Vray fully working into softimage but thats not gonna happen soon, and years are passing.

Sorry for long post, but i guess thats the purpose of a forum

Cheers, Max

edit: still speaking without knowing the real 2012 release, i mean if news on Mental Ray are just a Unified Sampling and thats it, i'll be really disappointed, but since nothing came out at sun light i tend to think my fears are true.

2nd edit (sorry but stuff come to my mind^^): SI is a killer application, its powerful and incredible, it would just need something more, its one of the few application who has the most elegant and functional built in compositor, why dont develop it further?
Imagine FXTree revamped ICE style with cutting edge tech, all nodes updated, a proper render engine integrated, Vray for example, modeling tools enhanced.. i mean..this would be really a big hit into small studios/freelancers who bet everything on one software.
To me, tryin to compete vs houdini is a lost battle at start already.

[ActionArt]

I agree about one of the best markets for SI is freelancers and small studios. In this case it would be nice to have more ready to use tools rather than ICE most of the time. I think now that they've accomplished most of the important areas in ICE they may turn back to some core development such as the viewport, rendering etc. I hope they do.

As for larger shops, I think that if TD's there can use ICE to develop their tools much faster than I think there'll be a place for it, especially since it integrates easily with Max and Maya. Everyone, large or small wants to be faster. Also, freelancers and small studios can now develop more advanced tools with ICE that they wouldn't have before. This is a great example: http://timoschaedel.com/index.php?proje ... jectid=40# Done with just a few (extremely talented) guys, but a small shop overall. I think SI has a real place in this sort of production when it can beat out Maya for speed, ease and flexibility.

Also, lets not forget that now that the groundwork is in place (ICE) SI developers can ALSO use it to create new tools for us which should speed up development in a spectacular way!

[Nizar]

I agree with Max, for a small or single man studio SI look a great choice.
I don't know if AD plan transform XSI in a Houdini like software, but:
They don't brought it for close a competitor (SI development continue)
They don't brought SI for steal his technology (we know it is impossible)
IMO don't seem they aim at little studios (as I read in Max link below, Maya/Max is firmly stable in his big production studios position, regardless how good is XSI release, or worse is Max/Maya), if they want conquer market share in this field, like say Max, must upgrade all the software aspects, not only ICE.
They brought and invest money in software who can steal Maya or Max market share? Why? was more simple wait a Avid failure. For this reason I think XSI never will have a Archiviz strong tools as users requested (this is a 3dsmax field), or will be armed with anything can be worry Maya
So, why they brought XSI and how they can insert it in his software portfolio? The only idea I have, and if a look at the
last release (from 7.5 to 2012) the only development was on ICE, so, I think, they want compete against Houdini. IMO, is the only XSI reasonable use in Autodesk software arsenal (or aim at little studio, but AD don't doing nothing in this sense).

In other post Hirazi show a video: 3dsm/XSI interpolation. No one of us, I think, need this (I don't have a 3dsm license and don't need it). This is good for studio and can push the
SI selling (under this pint of view is a good marketing operation). the worse thing about this video IMO, is XSI look like a big (cumbersome) and expensive 3dsm plugin... Ok, this is the other only idea about autodesk use of XSI: doing all the works Maya and 3dsMax cannot doing (ICE) like a big plugin (or companion).