Another 3dsmax sneak peak

[ace63]

if you think the Mac is important to Autodesk's future, I have good news for you! Autodesk thinks so too and makes an app for the Mac already that's used in most movies, games and tv shows that you see. Its user base is at least 10 times larger than the next closest competitor and it keeps growing. maya.

The only thing those comments do is drive me away from Maya - even though I use it every day I really hate it. Why would anyone switch from Soft to Maya only to have the same situation a few years later...

[bottleofram]

if you think the Mac is important to Autodesk's future, I have good news for you! Autodesk thinks so too and makes an app for the Mac already that's used in most movies, games and tv shows that you see. Its user base is at least 10 times larger than the next closest competitor and it keeps growing. maya.

The only thing those comments do is drive me away from Maya - even though I use it every day I really hate it. Why would anyone switch from Soft to Maya only to have the same situation a few years later...

Heh. When Maya2010 came out i swear i thought we will never see a bigger scam in form of a paid software update. Thats around the time i took a look at XSI. Reason and logic completely evaded me at that point. Looking back i cant even explain my line of thoughts to myself.

[luceric]

Heh. When Maya2010 came out i swear i thought we will never see a bigger scam in form of a paid software update.

ironic in this thread, given one could easily speculate the reason behind that disastrously light release was the port to Qt and Mac-64-bit. ; ) That app's framework had been written to be easily portable in the first place... Imagine for an app that was not.

[Bellsey]

2010 was the 'One Maya' release, in which we did away with the old Unlimited and Complete versions and just went forward with the one versions. Actually you could argue that Maya 2010 gave alot of value, especially if you previous only had Maya Complete, with 2010 got everything. It wasn't pitched as big major release anyway.

[McNistor]

It wasn't pitched as big major release anyway.

I'm curious, which one was pitched as a major release?

[Bellsey]

It wasn't pitched as big major release anyway.

I'm curious, which one was pitched as a major release?

I dunno, pick anyone you want. Maya 8.5 wasn't bad.

[McNistor]

It wasn't pitched as big major release anyway.

I'm curious, which one was pitched as a major release?

I dunno, pick anyone you want. Maya 8.5 wasn't bad.

Let me check to see if I was born at that time. I'll get back on this one.

[Cacoman]

Well, a lot of things already said and 99% of them converge with my personal point of view and the "Maya experience".

Last year I need to dig deeply into Maya as I decided to take a degree on character modeling and animation about two years ago. All the instructors use Maya but I was able to model in Softimage and then export to Maya for instructors to review my modeling. So for the first year I was able to stick away from Maya. Not only because I have been using Softimage since Softimage 3D, but also because beside delivering the assignments the work at the studio kept me very busy and I didn´t have the time to learn Maya.

But as I took the modeling techniques classes in Maya, I started to realize how faster is to model in Softimage that in Maya. Just the selection tool in Maya vs the tweak tool in Softimage. Not to mention other modeling tools that IMHO are far better than those in Maya. I decide to give Maya a chance and after two hours working on the model in Maya, I was back to Softimage and exporting the model to Maya for my reviews.

I survived the first Maya switch in that term. And I was able to put even more detail than the rest of the class into my final model. Not because I was better than my classmates, but for the speed of my modeling process against those using Maya. Some of my classmates started to look at Softimage. All they have used before was Maya.

But then the Intermediate Modeling class was gone and Intermediate Rigging came in.

I thought I could stay in my beloved Softimage, but this was a no go. I had to deliver the assignment in Maya so the instructor can review the rig.

With a deep sigh, I opened Maya and had to put Softimage aside on that term. After all its not the tool but the hand that creates.... I thought. So that term I needed not only to keep up with assignments but to really start learning Maya.

At first it was a nightmare. Just by switching from "O" and "S" to orbit the camera to Alt... I started placing keyframes from nowhere in Maya. And slowly I started to do the assignments. I can tell you that I worked all nights struggling to learn Maya and deliver the assignments.

All the time I was thinking this is much more easy in Softimage. Orienting the joints, enveloping, weighting, changing deformers. The evelope rig was easy, but the control rig... The constrains, using hypershade with color nodes for using math expressions.... At some point my Maya screen was so clogged with windows here and there. How I miss Softimage. When I thought I finally was getting somewhere in Maya. It camed the "Well for this, we need to start doing some scripting..." What???

Not because I don't know how to script. I am not a scripting beast but, I can script. But why do we need to script for some basic stuff that is natural in Softimage. While in Softimage I hardly need to script for rigging, in Maya that term I wrote about 20 python scripts.

Well the rig was built finally, but then came the blendshapes... What a nightmare compared to Softimage's Shape and Secondary Shape Modeling. For the blendshapes in Maya I dug hard into the web and finally found three scripts that work for mirroring the blendshapes and interpolating the deformed model with the original model to get the correct blend shape. Now it came assigning the SDK to drive the blendshapes. This was straight and no problem.

This last term was Character Evaluation and we needed to animate and debug the rig. Again Maya... I started to animate in Maya. And simply the curve editor in Softimage is far superior IMHO than Maya. Softimage is more intuitive and fast. The insrtuctor started to manipulate the keys in some ways I couldn't. So I asked "How you do that?". He answered "Oh I have a few scripts for editing the curves, keys and handles. Go surf the web and find those. There are a lot of scripts for curve editing..." What??? More Scripts?!!!

One thing I understood then is that studios have invested a lot in Maya beside the licenses and the maintainance. A lot more!!! And its hard to throw away all that money to switch for a much better software.

Two of my modeling and rigging classmates were Maya fans. They went to work for a studio that is Softimage based and working in an animated feature film. And they had to learn Softimage.

I talked to them recently and they told me that now Softimage is their favourite 3d software and how they had been blind when I spoke about how much easy was to do tasks in Softimage than Maya.

Now that I had worked in Maya, I can say. Softimage for me is much better than Maya in every aspect.

So to answer Luceric his question. My answer is: Take away the Maya logo from Maya and put it to Softimage I will use Maya only if I have to. But as softwares are now I will stick to Softimage even if it disappears. I prefer to look at other softwares like Houdini rather to change to Maya.

In fact I started as a TD in a mid VFX and animation studio this January. They were with Maya. I came in and started doing some tasks in Softimage that the animation team was stucked with them. We are switching the whole are to Softimage and by the end of April, we will be proudly Softimage based. Artists where so reluctant to change and learn Softimage. Now they love it.

So Luceric now that you are in the Maya team make sure that a lot of us will never go to Maya until you turn it into something like Softimaya.

Oh I forgot what this topic is about 3DS Max... In fact I started using 3D studio but after I changed to Softimage 3D I never looked back. I had open 3DMax from once in a while to convert some models from Max to Obj or send them to Softimage. But that is all. And at the studio there was an animation that needed to be fix when I came in. I open MAX start to dig in the scene, baked the animation and exported it to Softimage. Fixed it, rendered and deliver for comp in Softimage. Just lurking into the MAX interface was a PITA.

My two cents...

[McNistor]

Oh, but Maya's next gen. ;)

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I also suggested slapping Maya's name and logo onto XSI.

[luceric]

I'm curious, which one was pitched as a major release?

I dunno, pick anyone you want. Maya 8.5 wasn't bad.

Let me check to see if I was born at that time. I'll get back on this one.

Not sure which side Bellsey made the argument for in this one ; ) Any other release than 2010 was pretty good. That's the one that lit the forums on fire

[McNistor]

Any other release than 2010 was pretty good.

Of course, it depends on whom you're asking. Let's see what v.2014 for both XSI and Maya has in store. (more interested about XSI really)

[luceric]

But as I took the modeling techniques classes in Maya, I started to realize how faster is to model in Softimage that in Maya. Just the selection tool in Maya vs the tweak tool in Softimage. Not to mention other modeling tools that IMHO are far better than those in Maya.

It's agreed that the poly modeling tools in Maya are not where they should be, which is why there is a big push starting in Maya 2014, as per its Sneak Peak. 2009 and up does have a "tweak mode", btw, but it's not as elegant as the Softimage one. (it does have a "tweak object" mode which has been an occasional request for Softimage) Personally, I'm not spending any time learning the tools of the previous releases, it's not worth it. I'm also not spending any time in the hypergraph when there is the Softimage-inspired node editor there to replace it.

[talent103]

Cacoman! Great post. I share the same feelings. My experience was reverse. I actually loved the maya rigging and hypergraph and utility nodes......Till I actually started to learn Softimage on my own. Then it was Like I got a race car. The operator stacks and gator were such time savers over the years. Add the animation mixer and motor it was just great. I feel the problem is that as less students learn XSI and companies that used to work with XSI switch to maya I am forced to take the rust off my maya skills and bite the bullet. I also will try to use XSI when ever and whenever I can but I may soon be getting a staff position at a great studio that does awesome work.... but with Maya only. Look at any linked in , or creative heads and do a search for companies looking for 3D artists with Softimage. You will hear crickets and get nothing. That says more about the future than anything else. Even here there have been very little calls for xsi skills.

[talent103]

Yesterday; I visited a the place where I got my first job because of my XSI skills. I honed and developed my softimage skills at this place. I had not been there in 5 years. When I was there they only had 3 3D artists. In the last 2 years they have expanded and now have 30 3D seats. ALL MAYA. They switched to maya 3 years ago and then the boom times came for them.

[McNistor]

It is a human mind flaw that most religions, politic regimes, individual scammers and Autodesk that have been taking advantage of: unwillingness to accept or try something else than what you've been taught/introduced to.

I, like many others, didn't start 3d with XSI and I, like many others, once I did tried it I never looked back (to 3dsMax in my case).
Tools are tools indeed and the most important is indeed the artist, this is what I keep hearing and it's true from a consumer point of view that doesn't give a shit about the tools used to create the movie/game he's payed for, but for the user that uses those tools it makes a whole lot of difference.

To luceric: it has been said a lot of times (by you and others) that one of the main difference between Maya and XSI (and one advantage of Maya) is openness. Is it possible to "open" XSI at this current stage? If the answer is Yes, then why doesn't Autodesk do this? If the answer is No, then why not?

[Bellsey]

I was just teasing in my post. Maya 2010 was kinda lite and was more of a transitional and housekeeping release really, what with consolidating Maya Complete and Unlimited, and the introduction of Qt for the UI (no small feat).

Funny, many people have a pop at Maya's modelling tools and the way they talk it's as if they're usable. Which isn't really true. Maya's modelling tools are actually pretty good. Are they on a level with other packages, well it's a mix of yes and no. I think the problem is that in recent versions they hadn't progressed at the same pace as others, which is why they might appear old and outdated. The team have always wanted to address some things, and some nips & tucks have been added, but there's just been other more important stuff (based on customer feedback), that's been wanted first. Personally, Maya is in the best shape its ever been, and I've been a user since v1.0.
Maya not be to everyone's taste, but that's how things sometimes are. For me, I'm not a Max fan (in fact I loathe it, lol ..)