What if Softimage died?

[MauricioPC]

Sorry, the seats or the tires may be different? Is the manual vs automatic version of a car is a totally different car made separately by two teams who won't share the same base car? People also like different things with their software and that's why 3D software is highly customizable.

Car analogies are dangerous things

Yeah ... maybe I should expressed myself better. But I don't care if in the future Softimage uses the same platform/architecture of Maya. Or vice-versa. As long as you can make Maya work in the way Softimage do (workflow, interface and ICE), I'm down with it. Or have the option to turn Softimage-Workflow for ex-Softimage users.

Even though I'm a beginner, I feel more at ease using Softimage to get assets done than in Maya. I could learn programming and try to develop a UI for Maya that uses the Softimage way, but how long would that take? I would just prefer use Softimage. Just finished the DT intro training in Softimage and I was able to do more faster and better the ship there than the ship and training of Maya.

On a side note, how is the market for Softimage in Montreal Luc-Eric? It used to be big, as Softimage started there. How is it now?

[Falam]

If you take someone with Softimage experience will the learning curve be as hard, or will there be as many complaints using Maya ?

GoneBadFx - When you want to do complex things, will you be singing the same tune about Softimage ? If you sat in front of Houdini, how would you react ?

[AlexanderM]

Last few years Softimage-Autodesk disappointed me bigger degree with a quickie work. Such feeling that the team doesn't want or it is difficult to understand old source codes for its improvement. HQV, ICE modeling, new modeling operators is all low-quality results. I am afraid to present what is hidden in self.topology attribute (and why not self.geometry instead?). I think that we never will see ice-topology and ice-geometry in the SDK section. I very much love SI, and I want to create itself tools, but developers didn't give the chance to me, SDK in many places is poor, and I guess why.

[MauricioPC]

If you take someone with Softimage experience will the learning curve be as hard, or will there be as many complaints using Maya ?

GoneBadFx - When you want to do complex things, will you be singing the same tune about Softimage ? If you sat in front of Houdini, how would you react ?

Actually I enjoyed Houdini ... but I think I need to be more of a generalist now, as I'm starting out. In the future, sure ... I like the procedural approach.

As for complexity with Softimage versus Maya, I don't know yet. I was just talking about UI and basic-workflow for creation of assets and simple dynamics.

[Falam]

Another problem, there are two worlds in Softimage, never heard of this anywhere else. There is the forum world and the mailing list world, one is open to everyone the other one has a underground closed membership, figuratively speaking. Never understood this, maybe the forum world users are sub-Softimage users.

[gaboraa]

Ok all things aside, one must use whatever tool to make a profit; to get what you need is to dive deep down in the flow like the other are doing. I have been exposed a little bit of Maya recently because my brother says it is fine now, I take the liberty to re-examine that old junky monster again and what I found was somewhat interesting I may say. First of all Autodesk gave some care in UV mapping, last time I checked, Uv tools were just a crap. But modeling? Oh man it still lose big time, some tools are simply not working properly. And animation tools were just fine but I got Gimbal lock by only rotating a cube in 60 degrees and I suddenly understood why Maya do such things was to amuse me for the sake of bad old days. But its viewport is where it shines. BTW you cannot isolate a model in HQ viewport! Seriously man are you kidding us? Should we always switch to another viewport for isolating objects?

Now we all know that all the shares and seats have been changed by Autodesk. Their main focus was on developing Max and I distinctly recall same kind of topics were popping up in CG-Society Maya forums about the groaning sounds of the death of Maya. Now we are in the same shoes they where in and I see the clear points in the ideology of a dying Softimage which is true in basis. Autodesk made a statement about developing Softimage for game developers (I really suspicious we would get a decent DX11-viewport or other Game oriented, must-have features though) and when Japanese game developers start to change their pipelines to Maya which will be done in a few years, Softimage would officially be called dead.

[Eugen]

Guys,
have all of you had a look into Fabric Engine demos yet? I just heard it with half an ear until now, but looking at more demo-videos now... this is next-gen stuff.

Computing is fast, as fast as it will ever get on your hardware. It's a platform, of course, which makes it a TDs dream. Scene graph, Qt, Python, KL... modular approach... viewport of their own with Arnold connection (expensive, I know), rigging, crowd, muscles, hair, plants...
Helge showed a subdiv model demos with the FE VP embedded into maya, and get a 15 times speed increase.

So, bottom-up this is as modern as it gets these days. They seem to be making all the right software design choices.
Talking about someone 'writing a new, modern 3D-application' ? Is this not already happening here?


The biggest question, though, is, what about top-down?
Is there an 'interface'/front-end already a generalist/artist will feel comfortable with quickly for 'daily' work?
Yes it is - on the mid-term this can be Maya, Softimage, whatever they put Splice into.

So, if Softimage should be discontinued, and Maya is not favored, another option would be a FE 'front-end' that feels like - whatever you prefer.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone is already working on such a thing.

1000 questions remain, of course, but this is worth looking into...

[mirkoj]

Fabric Engine is TDs dream.. not artistic guys dream
It is not application to get it and start working.

Luceric, back to that model rig... you are right that all those can be done... I've bin doing it in Maya for years before moving on to SI in 6.01 version and never looked back.

I like doing those things in a way SI is making it possible to me.
In Maya every single one of those were nightmare and Ive 'bin using it since 2.0 version of Maya...
So yea you can do all those in both applications... but you can also go to a trip around the world in 1st class or start walking.
Point is not what CAN be done, but how it is done. And it is not matter of "getting used to it".
And also add that in order to get back again to same level of proficiency in Maya that me and a lot of other guys have in SI, it would take not only a LOT of time that people don;t have, but
also would still be waaay slower to achieve same things just due the fact that Maya;s way of doing those things is not what suits most of SI people.
Same goes to Max story... I was declining max character animation jobs that were pretty good paid but tools for animation is Max are nightmare and there is no money on the world that can pay for lost nerves while trying to animate in Max.
So yes in Max you can also model rig get hair animate.... but I would NEVER EVER do that in Max

I hope that any of OUR point of view is getting across? It is not the point of tools, of getting used to thing or even what is "better".
When using tools for everyday work we don;t care what kind of mess is happening under the hud, we care about workflow.
As put long ago..

With Maya you work around, with Softimage you work!

Simple as that

[Lord Futzi Voldemort]

With Maya you work around, with Softimage you work!

Simple as that

Amen.

[jaqu]

Autodesk made a statement about developing Softimage for game developers (I really suspicious we would get a decent DX11-viewport or other Game oriented, must-have features though) and when Japanese game developers start to change their pipelines to Maya which will be done in a few years, Softimage would officially be called dead.

Our company recently had some chance to work with one of the Japanese game studio .
and they already started to change a year or so.

I must say that Luceric's believe is base on a going on fact.

and the problem not only lies in the DX11. also about finding the outsourcing. and other human resource factor which will be needed during production development.

[SreckoM]

Problem is that XSI, obviously, had bad luck to be bought by AD. If somebody else bought it, they would probably put their efforts to prevent Japanese studio to switch. Even AD would do it if XSI is only 3D app in their portfolio. Question is, luceric maybe knows, is it even possible to do DirectX stuff in XSI as they are done in Maya, with decent $ support? To implement stuff that would prevent Japanese studio to switch, is it even possible to do all that or AD just figured out that such investment is unjustified?

I am really curios to know what are the factors that makes Maya No1 in AD portfolio. Is larger userbase and better platform support only thing that decided that Maya is app that AD should force?

It is really happening what pessimists were saying when AD bought XSI. I mean if major portion of Japanese studios are switching than it is not good for XSI.

[Helli]

Why are people still listening to autodesk employees when it comes to the future of Softimage ?

1) they are not allowed to say anything
2) they might not even know the future plans of AD
3) Whatever they say, the result is going to be the same

Softimage is dead, it's not officially end of developement yet, inofficially it is allready. Just a question of time. Everything else said by AD employees is a simple lie or lack of knowledge of what AD's plans are.
Anyone can remember what was said when AD bought Softimage ?
"The future is bright, with all that knowledge and the bigger dev team. Softimage is gonna have a bright future" - somthing like this.
The truth is:
The dev team was taken from Soft and moved to other departements to work on maya or other projects, Softimage was, as soon as it was bought, put aside and treated like what it is: a product which got no place in the actualy AD portfolio.

So please people. Let us just stop discussing with AD employees about this topic.
It's good to have them here but the time those guys spend would be better used on other topics.

[mkr]

I'd probably stick to Softimage till the end. I think I tried all the main 3D packages and neither of them come close in having UI and workflow that'd fit me like the Softimage does.
Cinema 4D is nice for creating some quick motiongraphics though.

[jaqu]

Why are people still listening to autodesk employees when it comes to the future of Softimage ?

1) they are not allowed to say anything
2) they might not even know the future plans of AD
3) Whatever they say, the result is going to be the same
...
....
....

So please people. Let us just stop discussing with AD employees about this topic.
It's good to have them here but the time those guys spend would be better used on other topics.

totally agree

[Falam]

I think LuEric is stating some POV, it has become quite the norm to call everyone a 'troll' online, quite pathetic.

Softimage good program, Bad community.

[Bullit]

Yeah... Volkswagen! good example... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Volkswagen_platforms Group A: shared among compact and mid-size cars, Group B: mid-size, etc.
Someone should let them know they're doing it wrong and should instead make 50 unique cars by separate teams and drop this platform thing.

You seem to think that a platform is 95% of a car. It isn't.
Even the same platform has differences, for example the wheelbase of a 3 door or a 5 door even in same model is different while sharing a platform. You even have the same platform for different propose vehicles. Fiat Multipla was in same platform with Fiat Tipo or Stilo, and was a completely different car.
And i am not even going to setup, more or less confort, sport or not.
I have nothing against sharing what can be shared that doesn't prevent different paths. A unique path of development brings stagnation and in the end the fall.
Like i said Autodesk has been and would be profiting by the variety of the paths the software and the people within they bought went of.
That also brings different and more extensive knowledge to their workforce. Something that wouldn't happen if they were all Autodesk in first place.

Without Softimage ICE people would Autodesk bought Naiad?

Is Luxology splitting their resources making Modo, plus another 3D app for people who hate Modo? Or are they just trying to make Modo the best they can, instead? Is Modo a soviet nightmare?

If they are tiny of course they can not make a unique way for everyone, so they aren't a soviet nightmare. That is the point.