Another 3dsmax sneak peak

[Maximus]

In case someone didnt notice yet, Softimage is already outdated. It fell behind on so many aspect that given Autodesk release cycle, given Autodesk lack of real core update and modern tool, given Autodesk focusing on things people didnt ask, makes impossible for Softimage to be competitive versus other softwares, if not for ICE.

Forget the idea Softimage is at same level of Maya or Max, it is not, and it will never be. It might be for you because you know it and spent years learning and knowing the software.
But at 360° feature-wise, plugin, diffusion in market, tutorials, and so on, it is not.

Doesnt matter if Softimage does an extrusion along curve better than Maya, this isnt what moves the market.
They wasted a lot of good things in Softimage and now the amount of things that need an update are so many that make impossible for AD to fix them in a relatively short time, not even sure if they want at this point (in my opinion they dont, it is already in a "maintenance" status with very few development to me).

On the other side, the most relevant updates we had in latest releases were CrowdFX, a HQV viewport that doesnt work and Luceric admitted that Cinny fucked it up when developing it, and a camera sequencer. Judge yourself.

The future is bright? dont think so.

[origin]

Hmm 3d max is dead since version 8, that means no serious dev for last 7 years and its still used, so I think you're overracting. They're only lucky cause of plugin developers. Besides viewport upgrade that doesnt work there were no changes to the "CORE"

[rray]

Forget the idea Softimage is at same level [..]

It might be for you [..]

But where's the difference?

[Maximus]

Hmm 3d max is dead since version 8, that means no serious dev for last 7 years and its still used, so I think you're overracting. They're only lucky cause of plugin developers. Besides viewport upgrade that doesnt work there were no changes to the "CORE"

Yeah this is how i'm over reacting:

http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/ind ... oldid=8652

edit: well they removed it but i guess everyone saw it already.


https://www.si-community.com/forum/v ... 2&start=20

[Maximus]

Forget the idea Softimage is at same level [..]

It might be for you [..]

But where's the difference?

The difference is that when you are used to being throw rocks at, you might just get used and start to find it pleasing.

[angus_davidson]

While you are completely right angus_davidson I think the problem here is the pressure that Autodesk puts on the team to release a new version every year with new features.
A core update WILL take more time than and Autodesk would lose the ability to milk money at regular intervals.
The same is happening with Maya and Max which get more stuff slapped onto their old cores every year. In the long run Autodesk is destined to fail with this strategy.

I have to agree. While Stephen is correct that Autodesk wont become Obsolete (it has its fingers in way to many pies for that) They are in a very real position of being totally out maneuvered and out innovated in specifically the 3d arena. From looking at the sneak peaks for all 3 programs and the hastily removed notes for SI 2014 (I so called the linux licensing bit if they are correct) I am very underwhelmed. With the possible exception of the first preview for maya which should be a tool found in all 3 2014 apps.

They have competition that are not doing great things, they are doing awesome things while they are putting out very minor increments or stuff that is already available as existing plug ins. Autodesk is probably the only company in the 3D space that can take massive risks (as lets face it from an income point of view its pretty trivial compared to the rest of their offerings). All 3 apps are at the point where they are really showing their age. That needs to change or it will get to a point where they become a liability in a studio rather then an asset.

[Kzin]

The stuff they can do with the fabric engine for example runs rings around SI on a technolgy front and its only in early beta.

you can say that for maya and max too.
i wish the people from fabric engine would concentrate on coding artist tools and not coding pipelinestuff.
on the other side, maya is in the studios and will not be replaced, cant be replaced thru another software because there is none, also none on the horizon and why buying a new app when maya can do the same?

anyway, the problem for si is that you hear alot of the plans for maya and for max, but none for si. the actual release reminds me on the last updates for soft3d which are service packs until no new sp comes out. but ad can now show that they want to keep si alive, lets see what next version will bring. now, the new team is inside the code, so hopefully we see more improvements.

[angus_davidson]

Well if the rather quickly yanked list was actually real, then its pretty much just proved my point. Unless they do a radical rework of Softimage its going to be pretty much dead as a brand. It doesnt have Max's army of plugins to pick up the slack (although the ones we do have are world class). It doesnt have Mayas exposure to the API to make it indispensable to TD's. SI niche was the best all around package. Allowing you to quickly get up and running and do amazing things. Once it gets to that point where pretty much everything is done better elsewhere it becomes a no brainer to be dropped.

[Ahmidou]

Unfortunately thats a very short sighted viewpoint.
In my experience its its virtually always been quicker to take a step outside and say okay what can we do better, using the improved tools / technologies available now compared to 5 years ago and build it from the ground up. It allows you to get rid of all of the compromises you have had to make. Starting anew doesnt mean you have to radically change the look and feel, usibilty, etc. Some of the best systems are those that to the layman look and act the same as before, just they now work so much better / faster

While I totally agree with you that they should do it, looking at AD's history and "philosophy" (leadership = no need to inovate) I'm insisting on the fact that SI on OSX will never happen.
They might create a totally new software, that for the better or the worst will replace SI and Maya( propbably not 3dsmax), but this won't be Softimage anymore.
Softimage(XSI)' core is 13 years old now, Maya 16, and Max 18. So my guess is we won't see them making big changes anything until a chalenger will start to become serious, and if they don't buy it...

Cheers
A.

Edit: just to be clear, what I meant was I'm all for regular core updates, but as it was stated many times by Luc-Eric the windows/Com dependancies will never be removed.
And I seriously don't see the point porting SI to OSX, in 15 years in the VFX/animation industry and 10+ companies worked with, there never was any need for this, even maya OSX is pretty rare.

[angus_davidson]

Unfortunately AD in the 3D Space have slipped into the same trap as M$ did with windows. Once they have a strangle hold on something , innovation flies out the door.

There is no reason that in the last year that they couldn't have re written the SI core from the ground up. In Fact given the new team and approach it was probably their best timeframe to actually do it.

But Yeah lets see what unfold brings.

#HelpMeObiOneKenobi

[iamVFX]

#HelpMeObiOneKenobi

Obi One

[luceric]

(duplicated post)

[luceric]

is no reason that in the last year that they couldn't have re written the SI core from the ground up. In Fact given the new team and approach it was probably their best timeframe to actually do it.

Like most mac fan and peope who write "Microsoft" with a dollar sign, you're all emotion and but you don't judge well how much development takes.

First, there is has never been a business reason to "rewrite the core" to port Softimage to mac. No one should scare about some schools that decided to buy macs to teach 3D. Everyone knows that macs isn't the standard desktop for CAD, Games or VFX, and you can buy a PC for 400$ instead of some shiny 2000$ upright laptop. The vast majority of Softimage's revenue has always come game studios working on windows and none of their problems are related to Softimage's windows roots. I'd argue that Avid should have in fact dropped the linux version so we don't have to be limited so much by it. Not port to more platforms. Being windows only has never prevented Max from being the #1 3D app and making millions. Softimage was always just hobbling along under Avid.

Second, old Softimage's team work on redoing the shader architecture (2012) took two years, and there is also 2 years of work in the "better viewport" (2013). There were three years of work on ICE. There had been two years of work on the rendering architecture in XSI 6.0 (including the time to fix it in 6.5 and 7.0..). Those are much smaller changes. That's how much work costs. And that means Softimage has been doing core changes since XSI 5.0 nonstop.

And to your point about Autodesk sitting and being complaisant... In the last four years only, Autodesk ported Maya to Qt, created a brand new viewing architecture core that supports both OpenGL 4.0 and Directx 12 (for Max and Maya), ported the SDKs to python and dotNet, made the Maya support millions of objects instead of hundreds, etc. All the while supporting 3 platforms and keeping up with compiler and OS changes. That's just the visible stuff. It's ridiculous that this work would be called "innovation" if had been done for Softimage to get it on the mac, but it's conveniently shoved under the rug as "being stagnant" here. Facts are that Maya or Max have ten times the market size of Softimage. Avid gave us ten years and millions of dollars to turn that around, and it did not happen, even with a 500$ version. A mac port would have made no difference. And all of this does't setup a good environment to justifying "rewriting the core" of Softimage.

[Eugen]

You did not say how many developers were involved in those projects, and are now.
If you wanted to be quicker, you could hire more people, no?

[xsisupport]

You did not say how many developers were involved in those projects, and are now.
If you wanted to be quicker, you could hire more people, no?

First, when you work for a company, you don't generally go around telling everyone exactly how many people work in various departments or on specific projects. That's proprietary information (and if it isn't, it is probably better to err on the side of caution).

Second, "Nine women can't make a baby in one month".

[luceric]

don't get me wrong, it would be best today if Softimage had been made cross-platform originally. I'm just saying, it's not realistic to talk about a core rewrite. Every product in the market has things it could have done differently. We have to appreciate Softimage for what it does great and go ahead and produce great content with it. This product is forward-looking enough in its design that it will continue to be relevant for artists for a long time.