Another 3dsmax sneak peak

[gustavoeb]

bottleoframs perception is pretty much the one I have, from my surroundings... of course it is hard to generalize, but...

somehting else I perceive is the people who do give a damn, and could even possible barely think of switching, they dislike the uncertainty AD has put the Softimage community in. specially with the events of last year making into "the news" in some cg sites and all...

[Eugen]

If product managers really wants to attract more users to Softimage (do they?), then they have to ask where Softimage is clearly better than others.
Because getting stuff done simpler/at all/better than in other programs is what it is all about - the best and only reason for anyone to consider transitioning, not just some bundle marketing strategy.

Of course this is a complex subject, and it depends on the target audience. At the moment it looks like this would be the bigger studios, because that's where all the TDs hang around, eager to "wield" ICE, which is pretty much Softimage's only true POS.
"Face Robot"? There are also plugin solutions for max and Maya.
"FXTree"? Collecting dust...
"Crowd"? Maybe... if it's as simple to use and at the same time more flexible than "Populate".
Modelling tools? Maybe, but that's where almost all other packages are catching up or already have overtaken.

Glorious ICE... is a visual programming language / tool creation paradigm, and for the "average Joe" it's just useless geek stuff, unless it brings really simple-to-use predefined tools to the table, and there are not too many yet. Ok, particles are something you can get started more or less quickly. ICE modeling for sure is a harder nut to crack. Anyone using ICE kine?

This is where I'll tune into the chorus: Softimage seems to continue to neglect the "bread-and-butter" stuff that matters for Joe, and there are a lot of Joes (including me). More than TDs for sure.

E.g. 3ds max users, of which many are into visualization, will find little or no reason to transition. Ok, nice modeling tools here, but oops, you cannot place primitives interactively in the scene, there's no auto-align, curves and extrusions more or less suck... aren't UVs a bit too complicated to set up? How do I align them to an image proportionally...? How do I import CAD data?
Often the simple, stupid but incredibly useful tools for what they do, are missing. Because of those, I've seen a few max users turn around again quickly.

What's the reasons Maya users should switch to SI? Animation tools? Almost the same. Modelling tools? Hmm, Nurbs are better in Maya, plugins will help with the polygons. Rigging? More plugins. ICE? Ok, nice partice system... Rendering? VRay, Arnold come for Maya now, too...

The area where Softimage really shines is in my opinion it's good software design/architecture, and it's darn slick user interface.
I've checked out Modo and Cinema4D recently with a colleague because I wanted to help him make a decision with software to dig into, and freshen up my own point of view. Overall it turned out that SI's interface is still top notch, and the operator stack is, despite it's quirks, a mighty clever concept.
But that is not enough, it's a prerequisite. The tools must be there. Not everyone is a TD.

Yet still I believe Softimage has the potential to become the most well-balanced-easy-to-use-easy-to-learn-non-linear-general-purpose 3D application, (which I wouldn't say about max or Maya, or any other), so I'll stick to it for a while longer. I strongly recommend caring for the basic stuff again, though. One, to simplify life for the existing users and, two, make it as sexy-looking for beginners as possible, because that's probably the most important (or only) audience with potential new users.

[Bellsey]

all very good points, though attracting new users to Softimage can mean different things. These days, its not often studio and/or users will literally transition and switch to an entire different 3D package, though it does happen, it can actually be rare. And that's the same for Maya and Max too. However, studio do look to 'add' to their pipelines in using certain software for particular tasks.

As you've said, using Max as an example, users wouldn't probably switch. Fixing and addressing the issues you mention would be great, but even if we did that, it wouldn't always mean people would suddenly switch. Especially if they have invested alot of time and money in a package for their studio. Many studios (small, meduim, or large) will centralise around one 3D package and then use other more specialise apps in their pipelines.

btw, if there's a plugin for Max/Maya that is as good as Face Robot, I've yet to see one.

[McNistor]

Bellsey is right, users wouldn't switch to a better software. They're (not) doing it now.

[Maximus]

If product managers really wants to attract more users to Softimage (do they?), then they have to ask where Softimage is clearly better than others.
Because getting stuff done simpler/at all/better than in other programs is what it is all about - the best and only reason for anyone to consider transitioning, not just some bundle marketing strategy.

Of course this is a complex subject, and it depends on the target audience. At the moment it looks like this would be the bigger studios, because that's where all the TDs hang around, eager to "wield" ICE, which is pretty much Softimage's only true POS.
"Face Robot"? There are also plugin solutions for max and Maya.
"FXTree"? Collecting dust...
"Crowd"? Maybe... if it's as simple to use and at the same time more flexible than "Populate".
Modelling tools? Maybe, but that's where almost all other packages are catching up or already have overtaken.

Glorious ICE... is a visual programming language / tool creation paradigm, and for the "average Joe" it's just useless geek stuff, unless it brings really simple-to-use predefined tools to the table, and there are not too many yet. Ok, particles are something you can get started more or less quickly. ICE modeling for sure is a harder nut to crack. Anyone using ICE kine?

This is where I'll tune into the chorus: Softimage seems to continue to neglect the "bread-and-butter" stuff that matters for Joe, and there are a lot of Joes (including me). More than TDs for sure.

E.g. 3ds max users, of which many are into visualization, will find little or no reason to transition. Ok, nice modeling tools here, but oops, you cannot place primitives interactively in the scene, there's no auto-align, curves and extrusions more or less suck... aren't UVs a bit too complicated to set up? How do I align them to an image proportionally...? How do I import CAD data?
Often the simple, stupid but incredibly useful tools for what they do, are missing. Because of those, I've seen a few max users turn around again quickly.

What's the reasons Maya users should switch to SI? Animation tools? Almost the same. Modelling tools? Hmm, Nurbs are better in Maya, plugins will help with the polygons. Rigging? More plugins. ICE? Ok, nice partice system... Rendering? VRay, Arnold come for Maya now, too...

The area where Softimage really shines is in my opinion it's good software design/architecture, and it's darn slick user interface.
I've checked out Modo and Cinema4D recently with a colleague because I wanted to help him make a decision with software to dig into, and freshen up my own point of view. Overall it turned out that SI's interface is still top notch, and the operator stack is, despite it's quirks, a mighty clever concept.
But that is not enough, it's a prerequisite. The tools must be there. Not everyone is a TD.

Yet still I believe Softimage has the potential to become the most well-balanced-easy-to-use-easy-to-learn-non-linear-general-purpose 3D application, (which I wouldn't say about max or Maya, or any other), so I'll stick to it for a while longer. I strongly recommend caring for the basic stuff again, though. One, to simplify life for the existing users and, two, make it as sexy-looking for beginners as possible, because that's probably the most important (or only) audience with potential new users.

All i've been saying since a bit, and i always get shot at
My personal opinion is Softimage is dead in less than 2 years. Too much time has passed without a decent update, this is a major sign of its decadence.
Facts are what matters. Developing is way behind the modern softwares and its not remotely par to other software houses.

[McNistor]

My personal opinion is Softimage is dead in less than 2 years. Too much time has passed without a decent update, this is a major sign of its decadence.

If lack of a decent update is what makes a software dead, then all Autodesk software is dead.
Hah Just kidding... (not far from the truth though )

[jamination]

maybe he should have added "lack of a substantial update along with a small user base". I think he is right though. I think eventually Softimage will no longer be updated (in the next several years), its usefulness will probably go on a couple of years after that.

[luceric]

I'd like to see a thread about what could be changed in Maya to make better for a Softimage user's point of view.. I mean if you have to bite the bullet some day and switch..

[jamination]

Luceric, I swear you are trying semi-subtlely to prepare Softimage users for the need for the inevitable switch.

[Tekano]

last I looked (at Maya) it reminded me of this

[Maximus]

Luceric, I swear you are trying semi-subtlely to prepare Softimage users for the need for the inevitable switch.

You would be blind if you didnt see this yet
Its more than evident.

[luceric]

just wondering how to make Maya better, since I'm powerless about softimage. .. that's not the app I work on anymore...

[Tekano]

eg...



doesnt matter if you make it a dark grey background. it is still a shit interface

[Bellsey]

personally I've never minded the Maya interface. I think sh*t is pretty strong, but I guess it's what people are used to. I've always found Soft/XSI, Maya/PowerAnimator, generally more intuitive than alot of other software. They've never been perfect, but there's alot they do right. Maya's hotbox and marking menus are genuinely very good, imo.
Max, on the other hand, I just can't get my head around. I find it's menus and workflows very backwards. I've never been a fan of the package.

But if anyone can tell me what's gonna happen in the next few years, then you're better than me, lol.

[McNistor]

just wondering how to make Maya better, since I'm powerless about softimage. .. that's not the app I work on anymore...

Make it more like Softimage. Or better yet, make a suggestion to Autodesk to simply take Maya's logo and name and slap it onto XSI. It's simpler that way.

[luceric]

The maya UI is not super pretty. they didn't work much it at all, and many users have told them to not work on that. But I've heard plenty of criticism about the XSI look as well. not really that relevant to a production tool, it's just nice to have.

btw, the modern Maya UI is significantly prettier than those old screenshot example