ZBrush FiberMesh to strands compound

[rray]

Cool cheers! Will do once I encounter such a file again. The mentioned evidence was destroyed by being repaired

It's a great hair styling tool for short to medium length hair. Maybe also long hair but that's much more difficult.

[Kerro Perro]

Hey i've gotting this to work and render nicely but can anyone tell me how to make it stick to a mesh for animation/dynamics?
I googled on it a bunch of times but can't find much about it - let alone how to do it in SI...

I hope it's not a limitation of technology that it just creates "floating" haircuts, would make it pretty pointless for animation...

Why is hair always such a headache? ;)

[Mathaeus]

Hey i've gotting this to work and render nicely but can anyone tell me how to make it stick to a mesh for animation/dynamics?
I googled on it a bunch of times but can't find much about it - let alone how to do it in SI...

I hope it's not a limitation of technology that it just creates "floating" haircuts, would make it pretty pointless for animation...

Of course it is possible, there are many ways to do this in ICE. From my understanding, it seems to be implemented as Melena operator (maybe I'm wrong). If so, you'll be able to simulate like anything else in Melena. Probably best way is to take look at docs again, or ask author.

Method could be specific , usually you won't find exact procedure on internet.

[Kerro Perro]

Well i'm not sure what you mean by it's implemented as a melena operator...
I did look at melena docs but that system is based on having a "generator" - nurbs or polys or curves, i could not work out a way to do it from those docs.

You say it can, great! Any pointers on how other than "go learn ICE"?

And as for asking the author he posted in thread so i think this is a good place to ask.

[Kerro Perro]

Oh oops i've just read flo erbe's blog and noticed there is an "fe_Fiber Emit Location" node included in his add-on...

I don't have time to test now but i think that might be a good start... sorry stupid of me!

[rray]

This could help, I think I remember there is (was?) a video somewhere on the author's site also where he explains dynamics etc.

Btw.. random tip using this compound... Before importing the fiber curves, make sure no 3D view is open. Only open a 3D view after converting to a point cloud/deleting the fibercurve object. Saves minutes of your lifes!

[Kerro Perro]

Well embarresingly he's mentions "sticking the hair to the dog" at the end of his video but after copying his steps nothing happens

I tried a few things with the standard strand nodes and with the melena ones but with my very limited (or non-existant) ICE knowledge i can't get very far. I don't even understand the errors...

Fact is that - and this has been discussed many times before - it's a shame that other than the old built-in hair system SI doesn't have any artist-friendly options for hair. I think ICE is great and people make awesome tools both great and small with it but for something like hair you just want to create not program you know?

I'm sure that if someone walked me through it step-by-step i might just get something that half-way works but i wouldn't really understand so i'll not ask and waste goodwill on it - maybe some time down the road when i've gotten a better understanding of this stuff...

But if someone like Exocortex came up with an artist friendly plugin for hair with the same quality like Species i'd surely buy it!
Just sayin' ;)

[floeberle]

hi Kerro

try this - step by step:

• ° import your basemesh
  ° import your fiber curves
  ° create strands from fiber curves
  ° open the ice tree on the pointcloud and add 'fe_Fiber Emit Location' like this
  emit_loc.JPG
  ° turn on 'Initialize Strand Dynamics' in the 'fe_FiberCurves To Strands Compound'
  ° create a simulated ice tree and set it up like this
  sim_tree.JPG
  ° if you play the scene now nothing happens, right? i actually think that is a bug in the 'Strand Dynamics Framework'. (somebody correct me, and please explain it ;), if i'm wrong)
  ° do this:
  --enter the 'Strand Dynamics Framework' compound
  --enter the 'Simulate Strand using Verlet Integration' compound
  --enter the 'Verlet Integration' compound
  --change Self.StrandForce to Self.StrandVelocity
  ° play back the scene

your strands should move now

cheers
flo

[Kerro Perro]

Wow thanks Flo!

That did indeed work! You've now made fiberMesh a viable option for me!

I had been starting to study ICE because of my frustration with this, i was looking at Paul Smith's blissfully understandable video's, i'm still going to keep going on that (apart from studying the tiny subjects of animation, rendering, compositing etc ;) ) but it's great to be at this point with fiberMesh. It should be do-able to add dynamics (tried out gravity like your screencap and worked fine) and hopefully filler strands as well.

Btw i don't if it's important but i noticed that inside the 'Verlet Integration' compound there was another red node: Get Self.StrandMass was not initialized... I don't know maybe that is of interest...

Anyhoo thanks man!

[rray]

Fibermesh is really cool, I wonder why there aren't more zBrush users using it. What would be even cooler if it could be post processed by Kristinka for added styling. Maybe I'll figure out a way to do that.

[floeberle]

hey kerro, glad it's working for you

about the Mass that's not initialized in the verlet integration compound. that's basically ok, cause it gets caught by that first valid node. BUT you could of course initialize the mass yourself (best do that in a non simulated ice tree, or just use the one that's there already). you can even build something so that the tips of your strands are heavier/lighter than the roots - can give interesting effects.

@ rray
it definitely is!
but to be honest, apart from some initial doodeling, i haven't really used it (heck, i didn't even open zbrush the last couple of months )

What would be even cooler if it could be post processed by Kristinka for added styling. Maybe I'll figure out a way to do that.

Go for it!!

flo

[Mathaeus]

What would be even cooler if it could be post processed by Kristinka for added styling. Maybe I'll figure out a way to do that.

Please don't go with it in a next few hours , as I already have some setups of this kind. Just need to cleanup them a bit. Even I'm not a great optimist when it come to modifiers that rely on deformation vectors, like curls or so - old story about getting a consistent ortho vector from curve, when underlying Nurbs surface doesn't exist.

[Mathaeus]

So here is setup "from any strand", able to hold some of kH modifiers. Most of them should work, at least on 'guides'. Best chance is for "kH Cut By Geo Volume", "kH Hair Length", "Kh Grouping". "Kh Curls" , "kh Bend", "kH Turbulence local" and so on, will do something relative to re-construction of strand up vector. Anything with "chunk" in name, will do nothing useful.

"Clump" and "locks" are built in hair filler, on second point cloud.

Method for re-creating up vectors is some kind of direction constraint, using strand tangent and emitter's point normal, all that in local orientation, defined by first tangent and point normal. It flips at higher angles ( let's say, strand tangent is out of hemisphere defined by point normal, or like...), it also flips when tangent is parallel to point normal. Some flipping proof solution would be walking through strand, like in mesh extrusion nodes in newer SI versions. But this is still "smooth flip", imho not so usable ( nice words....) for complex styling. For comparison, NURBs surface always provides even visual feedback of "up" and "down".

Hair filler on second point cloud is adaptation of factory one - with additional ability to create hair interpolation groups (similar to ones in XSI hair), but this time based on angle between first tangents on guides. It searching for more than three closest guides, choosing the ones with lowest angle, relative to closest one. Btw I don't know what zBrush is doing about, I think it should have something similar.

For now, nothing smart when it comes to movement of all that. Generally, in some classic ICE "pairs" setup, I'd try to store deltas of second guides and second "faked emitter" in "init hair filler" on guides, then just call and apply them in hair filler. This should prevent searching for closest guides in animation - when emitter is deformed, there's a good chance for different set of closest guides.

good luck

[rray]

Thanks for that. Brilliant. Will need some time to process and hopefully be able to report back with some pics.

[rray]

Works nicely .. although long hair with fibermesh still is quite a pain..

[wayfarer]

i use ice strands as a hair from zbrush fibermesh, but strands thickness increase as it's far away from world origin, what should i do? it's make me crazy and i can't find anything useful, thank you