Job for Cloth Solution

Announcements concerning cooperation, job offers or job requests
User avatar
xsi_fanatic
Posts: 268
Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 03:08

Job for Cloth Solution

Post by xsi_fanatic » 15 Nov 2016, 09:48

Hi,

I'm looking for someone that has advanced experience with cloth. The cloth can be a simulation, or hand animated, but it needs to be convincing if animated by hand. No geometry crashing into each other, or jittery effects.

A total of 8 different animations, at $500 each.

Topic is a pocket handkerchief that is a perfect square. Handkerchief needs different types of folding animations.

Here is a sample video of the different foldings.



Please contact me if you're up for the task.


Best,
Jason

Pooby
Posts: 498
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 22:25

Re: Job for Cloth Solution

Post by Pooby » 15 Nov 2016, 10:17

Is this to be done in a stylised way?
Is it a "how to" illustration?
Or is it meant to be photoreal?
Or a combo of the above.
What do you need the result delivered in? Point cache? Scene file? Render?

User avatar
xsi_fanatic
Posts: 268
Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 03:08

Re: Job for Cloth Solution

Post by xsi_fanatic » 15 Nov 2016, 11:01

Pooby wrote:Is this to be done in a stylised way?
Is it a "how to" illustration?
Or is it meant to be photoreal?
Or a combo of the above.
What do you need the result delivered in? Point cache? Scene file? Render?
Hi,

Not sure what the best delivery is tbh. Probably a scene file. I will take care of the rendering. It is meant to look and feel as realistic as possible.

I already have a realistic 3D character. What I have in mind is 3 shots.

Shot 1 - Close up of character from upper torso. Character lifts up cloth to camera with both hands.

Shot 2 - Character fades out, and only cloth is visible now (this will be fixed in post compositing). Cloth folding process takes place.

Shot 3 - Character fades back in with handkerchief already inserted / or being inserted into his front suit pocket.


So when the folding happens, only the cloth will be visible.

Pooby
Posts: 498
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 22:25

Re: Job for Cloth Solution

Post by Pooby » 15 Nov 2016, 11:54

I think you'll find that Syflex cloth wont be able to cope with this very well. It will have multiple layers of self collision and in my experience, even one causes Jittering.
Also, the ICE version of Syflex would probably be necessary, as you need to 'grab, animate and let go back to Sim' . Its not really feasible to do that with the original version of Syflex, but the original Syflex is a lot more robust.

Barring using a 3rd party cloth solve, that would leave hand-animation. Which is certainly possible, but you'd need multiple stages and its going to be hard to make it totally realistic without a lot of work, because of the crumpling from compression that real cloth does at the corners. I guess I'm just trying to ascertain your level of expectation as regards to quality.

How fast is the folding? Is it something you're meant to watch as an instructional video? The slower it is, the more accurate it needs to look of course.

Do you really need the 'character fades out' stage? Its going to be a lot easier to start with a flat cloth on a table than start with a cloth hanging from fingers.

User avatar
xsi_fanatic
Posts: 268
Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 03:08

Re: Job for Cloth Solution

Post by xsi_fanatic » 15 Nov 2016, 13:13

Pooby wrote:I think you'll find that Syflex cloth wont be able to cope with this very well. It will have multiple layers of self collision and in my experience, even one causes Jittering.
Also, the ICE version of Syflex would probably be necessary, as you need to 'grab, animate and let go back to Sim' . Its not really feasible to do that with the original version of Syflex, but the original Syflex is a lot more robust.

Barring using a 3rd party cloth solve, that would leave hand-animation. Which is certainly possible, but you'd need multiple stages and its going to be hard to make it totally realistic without a lot of work, because of the crumpling from compression that real cloth does at the corners. I guess I'm just trying to ascertain your level of expectation as regards to quality.

How fast is the folding? Is it something you're meant to watch as an instructional video? The slower it is, the more accurate it needs to look of course.

Do you really need the 'character fades out' stage? Its going to be a lot easier to start with a flat cloth on a table than start with a cloth hanging from fingers.

So you're saying the entire thing is not feasible as is ? What would a stylized combined with realistic, look like ? Is there a sample you could show me ? Maintaining a high quality result is the priority. If you can fake it, then it will still pass.

The entire length of each video is about 10 to 20 seconds at most (the shorter the better). The folding process would last anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds at most.
It would be a lot easier to start without the character, but the client's already paid for the development of the character and wants to make use of it. We can start without the character as a worse case scenario.

Pooby
Posts: 498
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 22:25

Re: Job for Cloth Solution

Post by Pooby » 15 Nov 2016, 13:30

I'm just giving my experience regarding cloth, as I've tried to do something similar and I was disappointed with Syflex when it comes to multiple collision layers.

I just think it might be better if he puts it down on a table, so you're starting with a cut on it being flat and square.

Its doable, as practically anything is, given enough time and effort. The thing is, with something like this, the level of 'realism' can make the difference between it being quite straightforward, and it being a nightmare.

For example, imagine 2 totally flat planes. Putting one on top of another with a 1 mil gap is easy and there would be no penetration.
Now imagine 2 slightly turbulised flat planes meeting. There is no longer a consistent 1 mil gap. In some places they will overlap and penetrate and in some areas they will have 'air bubbles' between them.

This kind of thing is what a perfect cloth solve would sort out for itself due to its simulated physics settling out the bumps and valleys, but unfortunately I don't have faith Syflex would cope. In fact I'm almost certain it would not. ( but love to be proven wrong)
So, if you are going for animation, its important to ascertain just how you wish the cloth to move and be realistic vs just showing someone how the folds work. because that balance can make the difference between a few hours work and a few days, per example.

User avatar
xsi_fanatic
Posts: 268
Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 03:08

Re: Job for Cloth Solution

Post by xsi_fanatic » 15 Nov 2016, 13:36

Pooby wrote:I'm just giving my experience regarding cloth, as I've tried to do something similar and I was disappointed with Syflex when it comes to multiple collision layers.
Fair enough. I've given it my fair share of trials and errors and couldn't come up with a good result. I also tried hand animating it, but couldn't go more than two folds. By the third fold, geometry begins to crash and things start messing up.

How long would it take you to hand animate one animation for starters ?

Pooby
Posts: 498
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 22:25

Re: Job for Cloth Solution

Post by Pooby » 15 Nov 2016, 14:09

I don't know as I've not tried this exact problem. I guess a day of R and D would produce a result.