Set Polygon/Edge Position

iamVFX
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Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by iamVFX » 22 May 2012, 19:37

So simple, so fast, so useful, I don't know, guys. I thought it was the most hardest problem - ice contexts, and now your turn to believe to K.I.S.S. power - just look at the nodes number, it's ridiculous :D

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Last edited by iamVFX on 25 May 2012, 13:15, edited 2 times in total.

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origin
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by origin » 22 May 2012, 20:25

Was it exported with 2013? If so, It seems 2013 is the first release to break icecompound backward compatibility
// WARNING : 3000-EDIT-AddICECompoundNode - Could not find node : BuildArrayFromSetNode

iamVFX
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by iamVFX » 22 May 2012, 20:43

Yes, it was. Sorry, I should mention that it was exported from SI 2013 since Build Array from Set was changed in that lazy piece of shit. If you can screen snap the compounds or if you have both of the Softimage versions (2012 and 2013) and you can remake them for 2012 and share with us I would be very appreciated (I have no 2012 version and my screen resolution on this machine is too low to make a full screenshot -_- )
Last edited by iamVFX on 22 May 2012, 20:58, edited 2 times in total.

iamVFX
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by iamVFX » 22 May 2012, 20:53

I'm so angry right now, fucking Autodesk ruined the moment of sharing with you guys, now you'll have to think how the nodes was connected

iamVFX
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by iamVFX » 22 May 2012, 21:13

I just realized that all the compounds that I made since the release date of SI 2013 will not work in 2012. I'm off

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guillaume
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by guillaume » 22 May 2012, 22:15

The Build Array From Set used by Softimage 2012 is a custom node, not multi-threaded and with less types (no array of topology or locations allowed).
The Build Array from Set in Softimage 2013 is a new factory node who is supporting those features.

I guess you could make your compounds compatible for 2012 using a text editor and doing a search and replace in all your compounds from 2013.
But in this case, the compounds loaded in 2013 would use the old Build Array From Set. So doing two versions would be better.

I understand it can be annoying, but giving a new name to the factory version was not the final choice (for various reasons I can't remember now :-) ).

Cheers,
Guillaume Laforge

iamVFX
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by iamVFX » 22 May 2012, 22:44

guillaume wrote:The Build Array From Set used by Softimage 2012 is a custom node, not multi-threaded and with less types (no array of topology or locations allowed).
The Build Array from Set in Softimage 2013 is a new factory node who is supporting those features.

I guess you could make your compounds compatible for 2012 using a text editor and doing a search and replace in all your compounds from 2013.
But in this case, the compounds loaded in 2013 would use the old Build Array From Set. So doing two versions would be better.

I understand it can be annoying, but giving a new name to the factory version was not the final choice (for various reasons I can't remember now :-) ).

Cheers,
Guillaume Laforge
Guil, you can say whatever you want about two versions of compounds and other unnecessary things that I can do with it.

The end user will not get the compounds for his older version of the software, and I will not force him to buy overpriced and unstable upgrade for it.

Build Array from Set worked perfect, multi-threading will not make difference comparing to amount of data that flow in ICE trees in one repeat loop just because most of the ICE topo nodes are not allow you to input per component data, because of another bug locations are not allowed, so all that changes were ill-considered in every-fucking-single way.

Sometimes it's just fine to say "We're screwed". Because that way there is a chance that you'll not make same mistakes again.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by Hirazi Blue » 22 May 2012, 23:20

iamVFX wrote:I'm so angry right now, fucking Autodesk ruined the moment of sharing with you guys, now you'll have to think how the nodes was connected
iamVFX wrote:I just realized that all the compounds that I made since the release date of SI 2013 will not work in 2012. I'm off
But then again, there are plenty of users who did upgrade to Softimage 2013
and your compounds work for them (so definitively not all of your work was in vain...)

Time to K.I.S.S and make up, maybe... :ymhug:
guillaume wrote:for various reasons I can't remember now :-)
Perhaps not the most convincing explanation, I'm afraid...
;)
...

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guillaume
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by guillaume » 22 May 2012, 23:39

iamVFX wrote:Guil, you can say whatever you want about two versions of compounds and other unnecessary things that I can do with it.

The end user will not get the compounds for his older version of the software, and I will not force him to buy overpriced and unstable upgrade for it.

Build Array from Set worked perfect, multi-threading will not make difference comparing to amount of data that flow in ICE trees in one repeat loop just because most of the ICE topo nodes are not allow you to input per component data, because of another bug locations are not allowed, so all that changes were ill-considered in every-fucking-single way.

Sometimes it's just fine to say "We're screwed". Because that way there is a chance that you'll not make same mistakes again.
iamVFX,

My name is Guillaume, not Guil.

Multi-threading can do a huge difference. Not for topology arrays maybe. I don't know as I never use it extensively and you are better than me for sure.

I'm not speaking with the Autodesk flag so I won't say "We" and I'm not the author of the 2013 Build Array From Set (I was the one for 2012 btw) so I won't say "I'm screwed" either.

(Always tricky to try to help someone without getting comments like this...)

iamVFX
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by iamVFX » 23 May 2012, 09:26

Comment like this called objective truth, someone is messed up, it's not your fault, I get it, sorry, but you better shouldn't post or noting someone's mistake giving it as a feature. Lack of backward capability of such an often used compound is mistake that not respect the main feature of ICE and its community - simplicity in making and sharing with each other.

Now I have to devote the entire day to remake compounds for SI 2012 users because I respect their choice not move to software that which does not cause them confidence. That's for what my quality standard stands for.

EricTRocks
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by EricTRocks » 23 May 2012, 09:56

Going to step in on this thread and hand out a warning to iamVFX. I can appreciate your frustration. However, in this case Guillame was kind enough to stop by the forum and answer a question and give a fully valid reasoning for what was done and why. Your tone of your messages aren't encouraging Guillame or any other devs to chime in when they can (especially Guillame who is actually not on Softimage dev any more). In other threads I've states that we need to remain respectful to others who are posting in the threads to ensure we have a professional atmosphere. I agree that you should vent your frustration but do it in a respectful way.

With each release things get improved and changed. The multi-threaded capabilities of the new version of the node will help a large portion of the user base and adds functionality where there was none before. For those folks who are developing plug-ins, scripts, compounds, it is their responsibility to check version compatibility. Developing the many plug-ins I have over the years and currently with Species I have to test on each version that I as a 3rd party developer choose to. Thus why I test in 2010,2011,2012, and now 2013. I have to compensate for features such as the Dual Quaternion compound not being available as a stock node in 2010. Something I did before releasing Species 1.0.

If you are shooting to provide compounds to the community then you're going to have to consider this in the future.
Eric Thivierge
Lead Kraken Developer, Fabric Engine
http://fabric-engine.github.io/Kraken

iamVFX
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by iamVFX » 23 May 2012, 10:21

EricTRocks wrote:I agree that you should vent your frustration but do it in a respectful way.
I'll do whatever I want with my messages and their tone. I'm not respect the people who hide obvious mistakes and they should know it.
EricTRocks wrote:If you are shooting to provide compounds to the community then you're going to have to consider this in the future.
Fuck that future where user can't use compounds of others that have "better" version than his.

I said enough. I'll stop this conversation if you never mind.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by Hirazi Blue » 23 May 2012, 10:39

guillaume wrote:Always tricky to try to help someone without getting comments like this...
Not to correct EricTRocks on this, as I agree with him, but the final remark in Guillaume's post could be considered inflammatory as well, as it implies he (almost) ALWAYS gets into trouble like this potentially, whenever he tries to help someone... And that's basically not true either, IIRC...
iamVFX wrote:
EricTRocks wrote:I agree that you should vent your frustration but do it in a respectful way.
I'll do whatever I want with my messages and their tone. I'm not respect the people who hide obvious mistakes and they should know it.
You are however bound by the rules (and customs) of this community, I'm afraid,
so the "I'll do whatever I want" attitude doesn't really apply!
Nobody forces you to respect anyone per se, all that's being asked of you is that you formulate
your responses in a "respectful way"... That's a subtle difference.
So for a large part it's not even about what you say, it's about the way you say it.
I tempted to close this thread but I'm willing to give it a chance to get back on a peaceful track... :-
...

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guillaume
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by guillaume » 23 May 2012, 12:55

Hirazi Blue wrote:
guillaume wrote:Always tricky to try to help someone without getting comments like this...
Not to correct EricTRocks on this, as I agree with him, but the final remark in Guillaume's post could be considered inflammatory as well, as it implies he (almost) ALWAYS gets into trouble like this potentially, whenever he tries to help someone... And that's basically not true either, IIRC...
Well, this is my personal feeling :). Before, I was a user like you, and I could help people on any problems. Now it sounds like I can help people only if it is a user error. If it is a software error (yes sometime it can happen, go figure....) then I can't without this kind of comments.

But don't worry it won't change my mind. If I want to help someone I will, even without any thanks in return.

For the Build Array From Set, I really wanted to explain the problem in a neutral way because I know by experience how it can be frustating to not understand why something is not working as expected. Of course an explanation is not a fix, but for me, it is better than nothing.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by Hirazi Blue » 23 May 2012, 13:03

Well, it might well be your personal feeling (and I respect that),
but it still can be considered an inflammatory remark
and that's my personal feeling as an Administrator,
as it's my "job" to try to defuse threads like this one...
;)
But all parties involved have had their say now? Time to move on?
...

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guillaume
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Re: Set Polygon/Edge Position

Post by guillaume » 23 May 2012, 13:11

Hirazi Blue wrote:Well, it might well be your personal feeling, but it still can be considered
an inflammatory remark and that's my personal feeling as an Administrator,
as it's my "job" to try to defuse threads like this one...
;)
So we are not allowed to express personal feelings like this here ?
And btw, I don't think it is just a feeling as it happened every time I answered to a "not user error" problem.

Anyway, forums are tricky places. It is very hard to express ideas clearly and without troubles.

Moderators job is not easy, so respect ;)